J-20... The New Generation Fighter III

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getready

Senior Member
Just because you know Americans married to Japanese means the US did not have this paranoid fear over Japan during the 1980s. My teenage years was during the 80s. There was an extreme paranoia over Japan during the 1980s. All the things complained about China today are verbatim from tensions with Japan during the 1980s. Aren't you Mexican as you identified yourself as before? What happens with your family doesn't speak for what happened in the US at the time. And if you want to know, ask Mexican-American comedian, Paul Rodriguez, who's act in part during the 80s was making racist comments about Japanese stealing American jobs. And what you refuse to see is your logic works the other way around. Chinese are married to Westerners so how do you label China as a threat?

I already know your MO so I'm not going along with you digression any further and attempt to kill the J-20 thread.

Dude, the guy spins his story everyway he wants. Lol he can say whatever he wants like his mother brother father friends sister nanny husband cousin whatever married a Chinese but if you really believe what he says then I got the title deed of statue of liberty I'm willing to sell for a small fee. :)

Btw off topic but kinda related to the discussion.
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Pro china anti Japan US propaganda. How times have changed. ...
 

kyanges

Junior Member
Well they are the ones that started "gotcha" journalism but seems like a little late since ABC news beat them to it.

On a side note watching these reports I have no idea how some say the J-20 is a rip-off of the F-22. The only similarity is the caret-shaped intakes. The Raptor forward section looks more like a bird's head while the J-20 looks like a spearhead. The rest is way more dissimilar.


The realities of stealth design forced the fuselage of the J-20 to look extremely similar to the F-22.

The differences in the nose, or whether the canopy looks like it's raised in the F-22 compared to sitting flat on the J-20, or whether the vertical stabs look exactly like F-22 ones, are all superficial in their eyes. They just see wings and flight surfaces in similar areas at similar angles, put on a body that large resembles something they know, and that's it, it's a copy. And they probably think it's a cheap one too. To some of them, anything different in the J-20 is probably because they couldn't figure out exactly how it's supposed to be done.


I think it just stems from lack of familiarity. It's like how all navy ships, cars, or an entire people all sort of "look the same" at first glance. I know it took me a while before I could start to identify the differences in what ship is what, or who it belongs to, etc. It took even longer for me to understand what was the reasoning behind whatever change.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
The realities of stealth design forced the fuselage of the J-20 to look extremely similar to the F-22.

The differences in the nose, or whether the canopy looks like it's raised in the F-22 compared to sitting flat on the J-20, or whether the vertical stabs look exactly like F-22 ones, are all superficial in their eyes. They just see wings and flight surfaces in similar areas at similar angles, put on a body that large resembles something they know, and that's it, it's a copy. And they probably think it's a cheap one too. To some of them, anything different in the J-20 is probably because they couldn't figure out exactly how it's supposed to be done.


I think it just stems from lack of familiarity. It's like how all navy ships, cars, or an entire people all sort of "look the same" at first glance. I know it took me a while before I could start to identify the differences in what ship is what, or who it belongs to, etc. It took even longer for me to understand what was the reasoning behind whatever change.

Well, before I agree with you, it really is only fair to point out that lots of Chinese aircraft are reproductions of Russian aircraft, let me also say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I believe that China made reproduction of the mig 15, we know that they built su-27, and look at the Chinese J11, J15, J16. So just to keep us all honest here, Lochmart bought several of the Yak vertical take off and landing aircraft as they were designing the F-35, they "paid for the tech", so if somebody says the F-35 is a copy of the Yak, I just say "SO?". The Chinese also built copies of the Colt 1911, So? Do the Chinese build Chinese Flankers, of course they do, they build great Flankers, SO? Now, the J-20 is a uniquely Chinese Aircraft, does the back half resemble the mig 1.42/1.44, maybe? does the front fuse look a lot like the Raptor,maybe? Does the J-20 look like anything that someone else is flying, absolutely not! The J-20 is a brand new airplane, it looks good, it flys good, every Chinese citizen should be proud! The PLAAF is proud of the J-20, they should be, it is a beautifull, well thought out airplane, read Dr. Songs paper, he is inspired by the Raptor, his objective is to build an aircraft that could go "head to head" with the Raptor, a "true fifth gen". The fact that we are discussing all these aircraft openly, on an open forum, in a rational polite friendly way tells me we are all more alike, than we are different! Freedom is scary for all of us, yes 60 minutes will publish a hit piece on you, just do the right thing, if what they say is true, fix it, it what they are saying is false, tell the truth!

---------- Post added at 09:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:10 AM ----------

You mean this guy? Lt. Col. Paul "Max" Moga (Major at that time)
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Yes sir, he is the Sq Commander ot the 525th FS at Elmendorf AFB, he was the first Raptor demo pilot and worked up most of the Raptors, "air show moves". He caught quite a little grief from a coupla posters on the old "Air Show Buzz", because he didn't perform the "pugechev cobra", as the Russian boys do at airshows. He stated that while the Raptor was quite capable of doing a nice cobra, he was flying a tactical demonstration, and post stall manuevers like the Cobra were "losers" tactically. He also stated that the Russian fellows were "departing their aircraft", and while it looks and is awsome, he would not be departing the Raptor as it was unneccesarily risky at airshow.

---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:33 AM ----------

Back to the J-20, as they seem to be doing quite a lot of tweaking, don't get discouraged as this is the hard work of bringing a prototype into production, it aint easy, and it aint cheap, and there will be troubles along the way! Thats why engineers make the big bucks. We are privvy to a lot of info on the J-20, which has led me to the deduction that initial flight testing went very well, as they progress into the low speed and high speed regimes, they will see how she flys in the real world, I think it looks good and don't anticipate any major planform changes.
 
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peperez

New Member
You misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to the T-50 per se. I was referring to what you said the Indians were doing. Let's see, they don't know when they will be able to start the production of their version of the T-50 (FGFA), and that's when they actually will start to slowly learn the millions of things about the technology. And yet, you were saying that they already had begun to offer to others what they have yet to start to understand, what they have yet to own first, and what actually is not quite there... This is why I thought you were mocking the Indians...

P.S. Sorry, Deino, I figuerd I owed Pepe an explanation.

No problem. You must remember FFGA is a very different version, biplace and with a lot of Occidental avionics. THIS is the main reason why they didn't know when they will be able to start the production. They are already receiving technology from Russia. Remember they pay a lot for it. Deino, there's only three T-50s: one for static structural efforts and two flying. This is official info sent for two governments with an offer to joint the program...

Cheers

Pepe
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
:confused:So Pepe, what is actually going on with the T-50 struturally, is it the center rear fuse or vertical stabs. So of the efforts to llighten the F-35B resulted in replacing a titanium bulkhead with a forged aluminum, but that resulted in cracking of that bulkhead as the aluminum just will not carry the load that ti will. Guys I suppose theres no flying going on at present with the J-20, it is nice that at least these birds are getting a little sunshine here and there. Any run-ups, It could be a while, I'm just typing this so someone will prove me wrong.LOL
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
.... Deino, there's only three T-50s: one for static structural efforts and two flying. This is official info sent for two governments with an offer to joint the program...
...

Hmmm ... as far as I know there's T50-KNS, T50-1, T50-2 and the latest T50-3 with the avionis ... also T50-4 currently under construction but reportedly delayed.

Deino
 

peperez

New Member
Hmmm ... as far as I know there's T50-KNS, T50-1, T50-2 and the latest T50-3 with the avionis ... also T50-4 currently under construction but reportedly delayed.

Deino
There are three built and one in construction. This is official. By the way, with no oxygen generator problem.

Pepe

---------- Post added at 02:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 PM ----------

The Russians are the biggest specialists in titanium structures, even American companies, like Boeing, use their expertise. I think a lot of info published in Occidental media about Russia end China is biased by Cold War mentality. They need a BIG enemy to get news. In my opinion, a lot of money could be saved when North America and Europe perceived the biggest enemy is a lot more elusive and complex one and the best way to combat it is with education, development and fair commercial practices.

By the way, some Occidental products, like Rafale and F-35 (yes, the F-35!) suffered from the same biased vision from the media. The biggest amount of F-35 problems and costs arising features concentrate on F-35B version and contaminate the program in totum. The Rafale performance in India was superlative. If you guide yourself by "specialized" press, both planes deserve the scrapyard. The Gripen NG, that never flew, is considered by them a very good design!

I must say that I consider F-22 Raptor the most advanced and terrific fighter in existence and superior to F-35 in all aspects. It needs only a good oxygen generator system.

Cheers

Pepe
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
2002

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