Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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Obi Wan Russell

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Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Obi Wan, what is the status of the French PA2 carrier? Are they any closer to approving it and cutting first steel?

Last I heard they were looking at a design that was somewhat larger, at 75,000 tons.

The French Government bought into the CVF programm several years ago to provide them with a companion carrier for the Charles De Gaulle, hence PA 2 (Porte Aeroneufs 2, Aircraft Carrier 2 for those who haven't figured that out yet), but at the time CVF was a STOVL design, though suspiciously with many CTOL features (officially an 'adaptable' design, and indeed it has been adapted now). The French modified the design for CATOBAR, though at the time EMALS wasn't in prospect for the French at least, so American C-13 Steam Catapults as on the CdG were specified. This meant fitting donkey boilers to provide the steam for the cats, and the French also specified a defensive missile battery (Aster 15) in Sylver VLS silos. These along with some internal rearrangements to suit the French Navy drove the displacement up to 75,000 tonnes, though the overall dimensions remained the same. The French ulterior motive for joining the programme (I'm English so naturally assume the French are up to some thing all the time!) was that they thought they could grab the lions share of the construction work, up to two thirds of it in return for only one third of the ships in the programme. They failed to appreciate that the CVF programme was from the point of view of the then UK Labour government as much about job creation in run down areas as building new carriers for the RN. The French paid £150 million for access to the design work, but slowly realised there was no prospect of awarding any of the construction work on the UK ships to French yards. This, combined with the economic downturn, meant the project was suspended by President Sarkozy until around 2012, when it will be looked at again.

In the meantime the Primary French Warship constructor, DCN, which was a little miffed at being passed over for the design work for PA2 (they built CdG, and have been touting conventionally powered variants to the MN ever since) revived their previous potential CV designs and showed them at naval exhibitions, referring to them as 'PA2' as if it was a done deal. As usual many internet 'experts' have now assumed this is a done deal and confidently decree the CVF/PA2 is dead and buried. They may be surprised next year if the French Government gives the go ahead for the project, though I personally think it will be suspended for another couple of years until their economy improves. It is not in the nature of the French to cancel a project like this, any other nation would just say they couln't afford it and walk away. To the French keeping the project in limbo allows them to maintain national pride without spending any money. In the meantime they are keeping their shipyards busy with the much cheaper Mistral class LHDs for themselves and the Russians.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

depends on UK/Europe's economic situation and future threat assessment. If sold cheap enough Australia MAY purchase one but that 8-10 years from now so just pure speculation. Everyone is a tad nervous with PLAN's naval dominance in the Pacific region including Australia.
By the time the 2nd QE CV is commissioned PLAN may very well have three carriers at sea. They are beefing up their Navy. Australia is also in a better position financially compared to the UK and Europe. They're also a level III partner in the JSF program.

Do you think the UK will ask the Australian to borrow more money to support the QE CV operations? I think I've mentioned before that it would be wise if most of the Commonwealth nations should share responsibilities with the UK as as CV. Imagine a single carrier that served by UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand sailors (yes I'm aware they all each has different planes and weapons) that could really save time and money in the long run. That would be neat.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Do you think the UK will ask the Australian to borrow more money to support the QE CV operations? I think I've mentioned before that it would be wise if most of the Commonwealth nations should share responsibilities with the UK as as CV. Imagine a single carrier that served by UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand sailors (yes I'm aware they all each has different planes and weapons) that could really save time and money in the long run. That would be neat.

Unnecessary and highly unlikley. We will be putting both carriers into service with the RN, and manning won't be a problem. The ship's complement of a CVF is just over 680, several men less than an Invincible. The air group is separate from that figure of course. That's not to say commonwealth sailors won't serve aboard, there are always exchange postings between allied navies, so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Australian, NZ, Canadian and American sailors and officers serve aboard the ships, just not in great numbers and not to make up for deficiencies in RN manning levels. The Commonwealth nations do share responsibilities with the UK, and can best provide for joint ops with their own escort ships rather than trying to force a 'multi cultural' crew onto a carrier.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I can't imangine a ship that size with a ships company that small. Who's going to clean it?
The total ships compliment is 1450. I believe the air crew is around 600. This would leave 850 for the crew.

It can also accomodate 200 more for flag and command staff or commandos/marines, etc..
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Thanks for your answer Obi Wan. What about rotation of crews from the Commonwealth nations when operating the QE carriers, any chance that will happen?
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Re: PLAN Carrier Operations..News, Videos & Photos

Thanks for your answer Obi Wan. What about rotation of crews from the Commonwealth nations when operating the QE carriers, any chance that will happen?

There are exchange postings now and will be in the future, as with most navies of allied nations. The suggestion that the RN will have to call on Commonwealth Navies to provide significant numbers of sailors to fully man the carriers because the RN will not have enough to do the job themselves is nonsense. The ships are designed to be run by a crew about the same size as an Invincible class CVS, not a Nimitz class CVN. The addition of catapults and arrestor gear will increase the complement, but not by all that many in percentage terms, and won't cause major headaches for 'Drafty' when the ships enter service.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
The Indian Navy has launched a request for proposal to build four large projection vessels with dual helicopter carrier and amphibious role. Indian shipyards were consulted but they had no design to propose. Indian Navy is therefore contacting foreign partners to for proposals.

Several international groups should answer the request for proposal. French shipbuilder DCNS with its Mistral class (BPC) already serving with the French Navy and soon with the Russian Navy, the Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri with its Multifunctional Ship (MS), Spain's Navantia will likely offer the Buque of Proyecciones Estratégica (BPE) and South Koreans shipbuilder Hanjin Heavy Industries could offer their amphibious assault ship from Dokdo class.

At first glance, DCNS and Fincantieri should have some advantage over their competition as both shipbuilders already work with the Indian Navy
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Seems like everybody with a "blue navy" want them LHDs nowadays
 

navyreco

Senior Member
^
Indian shipyards were consulted but they had no design to propose. Indian Navy is therefore contacting foreign partners to for proposals.

What they can probably do is a deal like Russia did with France: Sign for 4 ships + technical know how on how to build some of them locally...
 
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