China's Education system compared to the USA

[latenlazy]

I agree that a good system should reward creativity just as it rewards hard work. However, what I am objecting to is the idea that the Chinese education system is responsible for Chinese students not being creative in the work place. The Chinese education system is a product of Chinese culture, and the same system that does not reward creativity in school isn't going to reward it in the work place either!

Cultures do change, and a great place to start is often the education system

I wonder how many of those companies in China who bemoan the lack of creativity took a good look at their organization and see if their company structure is set up to allow the kind of creativity that they say they would like to see.

It has been a big trend recently as Chinese companies try to find ways to innovate and be globally competitive actually.

 

[vesicles]

The real issue at hand is simply language. Whenever my dad would ask a subordinate about why a job was done poorly, they would have a dozen perfectly "reasonable" explanations all argued more eloquently than my dad could ever manage to respond to. So it all ends up being more of a hassle than it's worth.

Yes, this is one of the excuses. Like your dad, my dad actually also uses this as an excuse. It's amazing that my dad thinks so much like your dad. After getting his Ph.D. in Chemistry, he thought about becoming a professor. With several offers in his hands including a faculty position, he decided to take a Senior Chemist position at Texas Dept of Agriculture. One of his reasons was his English. Then he got several opportunities to get promoted and become the lab manager. Again, he refused because the exact reasoning as your dad explained. He's more worried about his English. And my mom who is a nuclear chemist, does not even dare to look for a job when she came to the State 20 years ago because of her English. In fact, her English is not that bad compared to some of the Chinese technicians now working for me. Then there is one of my wife's uncles, who speaks English that no one can understand. He is a successful professor in Michigan. So to me, these things are mere excuses. If you truly want to do it, you WILL overcome all kinds of difficulties.

 

[plawolf]

wolf, you damn should run for President!

Be it a university or an Oceanian state, not sure you can run for the US of A though. (It is STILL a compliment)

Haha, well you are far too kind!

 

[plawolf]

Transportation of students is part of the educational system. In China is is sometimes hazardous to place your child in the schools transportation system..

Well, I think the fact that that story made such headlines in China highlights that this is far from normal practice.

 

[vesicles]

Ehh... I don't think my creativity is being stifled when I channel it in my hobbies. I also have a bunch of ideas for improving society in general, but it's never going to be carried out because I don't have the resource to do so, nor the inclination to convince enough people to do it with me. That doesn't mean my creativity has been stifled.

See? That's my exact point. While you think you don't have the resources to carry out your ideas, another person might dedicate his/her life trying to put these ideas into action. these would be the kind of people who eventually become presidents and might change the society as they initially intended.

 

[bd popeye]

Well, I think the fact that that story made such headlines in China highlights that this is far from normal practice.

Unfortunately there are crashes of vehicles carring children to and from school. I've posted several of those unfortunate stories in the http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/gen...ly-photos-videos-news-59-5535.html#post162626

Check it out.

 

[plawolf]

There is a difference between researchers and researchers. Most of the technicians in labs are Chinese as well. Most of them can get work done beautifully. However, when it comes to creative thinking, they become a little stagnant. I think this is caused by the filtering effect of Chinese education system. Most of the creative people don't care too much about the boring education system in China and that makes them unable to compete with those who diligently obey orders and study hard for everything thrown their way. Not that there is anything wrong with studying hard.

I think that while it is true that there does appear to be a lack of creativity and original thinking in those who have gone through the education system in China, it is to a much less degree than what you seem to think, and I also disagree about the cause.

I have to agree with Solarz here Vesicles, a lot of the time, those Chinese researchers are not asking because they do not know what to do next, but they are asking to get re-affirmation from their superiors that what they are doing is what is desired. It is partly a lack of confidence, as I observed before, but also part cultural, as they do not want to appear to be a hothead upstart who does not care about the views and ideas of their superiors/elders. There might also be some bad habits from passing exams mixed in, as school children who ask the most questions most often tend to do better at exams than the more independent sort who prefer to go it alone and come up with their own ideas and solutions.

This effect is amplified in the Chinese, extreme pressure, huge classroom style of teaching. The students are under so much pressure that the most time efficient method of studying is to just take what the teacher tells you as the absolute truth and learn that instead of questioning it, challenging it and figuring out why that is the case, because the student simply have too much workload to spare too much time on such 'idle' thinking, and the teachers tend to have too many students to teach to properly explain things even if a student did ask such questions.

This brings us neatly onto the real reason I see as the cause of this lack of imagination and creativity - the pressures placed on the students and the habits they foster.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I admire western high-school education precisely because it promotes students to not only learn why something is the way it is, but most critically, to question why that is the cast, and thus gain a far more in-depth understanding and this generates real interest in a subject, and is a key stepping stone to developing good independent analytical and creative skills, and such preparation is great at equipping students with the critical studying skills needed to make the most of their university education and working lift after formal education.

Sadly, that is something that I feel the Chinese education system could improve massively on.

I think that the current system would be acceptable up to secondary school, as by that time, pretty much all the students would have an extremely solid foundation of a very wide range of key knowledge and world-beating literacy and numeracy skills.

High school in China should be reformed to follow the western approach, whereby the students are taught and encouraged to think critically and creatively and independently to make the transition to university life much less extreme, and also to given them more confidence to think critically and creatively as well as to seize the initiative.

However, the sad reality of the fact is that sweeping educational reform in China is very unlikely because of the amazing results attained. China ranked first in all fields in the most recent Programme for International Students Assessment (PISA) rankings.

Would anyone consider sweeping changes to a system that seem to work so 'well' at present? Especially since the changes I have in mind will probably be pretty expensive to implement, and may well actually local China's scores and rankings, if only initially.

All too many Chinese parents are sadly falling into the misconception that western universities are somehow better at fostering creativity and gives a better education and spend exorbitant amounts of money to send their children abroad so that they might receive this 'superior' education.

However, IMHO, it is high school that makes the critical difference, and western universities do not differ all that much in the way they run their programmes as Chinese universities. If anything, sending the child alone and to a completely foreign culture with only mediocre english language skills tend to exaggerate the already large difference between high school education in China and university life, and amplify the already well noted tendency for oriental students to be shy and passive, and thus can be far more harmful for the child's healthy development and education than if they had just gone to university in China.

I think if children are to travel abroad for a western education, they should either go early, at high school and stay till university, or they should go later, for a masters or PHD, MBA, when they have had time to adapt to the massive change in educational style in a much more familiar cultural and language environment.

 

[solarz]

If you truly want to do it, you WILL overcome all kinds of difficulties.

If the manager position carried a significantly higher salary, then I'm sure my dad wouldn't mind arguing with those guys all day long. However, it doesn't, so in the end, it's easier to be just a scientist.

I disagree that it's an excuse. How many managers and senior executives do you know speaks poor English? Language is a real barrier.

I learned English when I was 8, French when I was 11. I spent grades 4 to 11 in French schools, yet I feel much more comfortable expressing myself in English than in French. If I had to use French explain to an irate boss why my department was behind schedule, I wouldn't bet on my chances of promotion.

Keep in mind that we're talking about manager positions and not technical positions. Being a successful manager is all about effective communication. Having a less-than-fluent proficiency in the language puts you at a severe disadvantage in that area.

See? That's my exact point. While you think you don't have the resources to carry out your ideas, another person might dedicate his/her life trying to put these ideas into action. these would be the kind of people who eventually become presidents and might change the society as they initially intended.

So you're saying Obama is more creative than I am? I'm gonna have to disagree with your definition of "creative" then.

 

[vesicles]

So you're saying Obama is more creative than I am? I'm gonna have to disagree with your definition of "creative" then.

No, I'm saying American society encourages people like Obama to pursue his goals/dreams while Chinese society doesn't.

 

[plawolf]

No, I'm saying American society encourages people like Obama to pursue his goals/dreams while Chinese society doesn't.

That is a bit rich. HuJinTao came from a very poor family and was in fact an adopted orphan.

When was the last time anyone with such humble beginnings became even a senator or congressman in the US, let alone president?

Political office is only an aspiration the rich can dream of in the west. For all its flaws, China's system is far more inclusive.