J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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IronsightSniper

Junior Member
Re: Stop making endless excuses. T-50 is clearly inferior to J-20.

Well, remember, no T-50s have flown yet, no J-20s have flown yet. Technically that thing that flew on January 11th was the J-XX, it's nothing more than a prototype at best and a technology demonstrator at least. Production of the J-20 will not commence for a very long time, and if you asked this opinionated armchair general, I'd say that that J-XX was simply polished to give the PRC a PR boost, but I'm not going to talk about that.

Again, many people have thrown around estimates for the T-50's stealth capabilities. But because no T-50s have been produced yet, you cannot judge it. Same for the J-20, it's stealth may be the size of a metal golf ball or a metal watermelon.
 

IronsightSniper

Junior Member
Yes, those are the engines that they are using. And what do you mean by "completly different"? redesigning the entire plane? then whats the point of unveiling the plane with such a pomp (including putin)?

Well, I shouldn't have used such an hyperbole, it wouldn't be completely different, but it would be different yes. The PAK-FA you see right now is not a Stealth fighter, that has been established since it's test flight. The T-50 that will roll out in 2015, however, will. Reasoning behind that is because the PAK-FA that flew in January of last year wasn't wearing "all of it's stealth" so to say.

Speaking of Engines, here's a quote from
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This is followed by China’s inability to build a reliable turbo-jet engines as it is yet to perfect a 90kN engine for the JF-17. Chinese designers have taken note of these deficiencies and have made the airframe suitably.

So I'm guessing the PLAAF is going to have to buy some of those PAK-FA engines huh? :(

This tech is being investigated, but if you think warplanes will get them in our lifetime your totally wrong.

I said that it is believed to have active camouflage, I never said I did too.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Its a 'Prototype'. The very 1st flying prototype. It has an untreated airframe. It does not have any blockers installed. A fully complete machine has not flown. I think prototype 3 or 4 will be.

Regarding antennas, look at those 2 on the Raptor nose :
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The photo of Raptor with two antennas is still very clean. Did you count how many antennas on the T-50? However, let's wait and see the production aircraft of the T-50.
 

Martian

Senior Member
Pictures show that you are looking at the Russian T-50 engine fan blades

the fan blade you see in T-50 air inlet may be radar blocker.
B-1 bomber also employed radar blocker but with different design.

Look at the first picture below, you will see that the Russian T-50 engine fan blades fit perfectly when they are overlaid on a Russian Saturn 117S engine from an air exhibition. The following pictures are from one of my posts on another forum.

NOeQk.jpg


PAK-FA Stealth Myth Busted​

pakfafront.jpg


So sad to see those Air-intakes in Zoomed page.Looks like Fan
Just shows, all that we were speculating about S-shaped air ducts is a myth.
Russian's couldnt design S-shape air intakes, all stealth talk is useless , god knows now abt frontal low observable features claimed abt Pak-fa.
We should not invest in this project .

Thats my take - Hope that i am wrong/Picture is fake

The pic is real. The very first day I knew that the fan blades would be visible from front.
But this is a prototype and specially the engines to be used in Pak Fa are not ready. So we don't know what sort of an arrange it would be.

The S curve has to be present. If not S, a little curved intakes but its not gonna be like this for sure. Let the engines get ready and then we can see.

sumshyam said:
Perhaps very very disappointing....all the talk and claims about S shape air inlet are worthless as per the following picture...and forget about stealth...!

NYbR5.jpg

sunnyv said:
I just hope i am wrong / Or images are a Fanbyoz effort / PS job.

But looks like This is Fan blade indeed. Its a real heart broker.
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saturn117s.jpg

May be in future lets hope they change intakes to a more curved ones at-least -
pic below is 117s which is not final engine .
 
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pla101prc

Senior Member
i heard subsequent tests will be held in some remote place so dont hold your breath about any new photos coming out soon
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
It is not that China wake up on the wrong side of the bed and decide to show off J-20 for PR . They have been doing the research for 20 years amid burgeoning scientific and engineering advances couple with booming economy. For some one to suggest "doing it for PR" is insult to hard working engineer in Chengdu

An End to America’s Air Invincibility?
China’s new stealth fighter jet likely to reshape U.S. military strategy in Asia.


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The era of dog fights was supposed to be over. In future wars, American pilots no longer would have to make like Tom Cruise in Top Gun, maneuvering for that kill shot against enemy aircraft. Instead, the nearly radar-invisible Boeing F-22 Raptor, first produced in 2005, would allow American pilots to shoot down an enemy jet from 50 miles away, before the opposing pilot could see even a speck on his screen. But that dream of the easy score was dashed this month, after China introduced its own stealth fighter jet, the J-20.

The test flight of the new aircraft came just as Defense Secretary Robert Gates met with Chinese President Hu Jintao in Beijing to discuss resuming military ties. No one had told Gates the test was planned and he was surprised by what appeared to be a thinly-veiled message about the future balance of power. Hu said that the timing was a coincidence, and that he himself didn’t know the test flight was scheduled. He will get a chance to elaborate when he meets with President Obama in Washington this week. But Bonnie Glaser, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic International Studies told NEWSWEEK: “I don’t buy it. It’s not plausible to me that a new weapons system could be test-flown without Hu's knowledge. The Chinese are sending a signal that they…are still concerned about U.S. power in the region.”

Although no J-20 will be flying into battle for at least a decade, the jet’s potential could help change the military dynamic in East Asia, a region already undergoing huge shifts, says Wei Liang, a research fellow at the Monterey Institute of International Studies, in California. As photos of China’s new aircraft circulated on the internet, analysts noted its resemblance to America’s F-22. The flat surfaces, without weapons jutting out, would help it slip past American or Taiwanese radar undetected, says Nate Hughes, director of military analysis at STRATFOR, a security research firm.

The test flight puts China in a very elite club. America is the only nation to produce an operational stealth fighter jet, and Russia is the only other country to even test one. China’s entry into that group amounts to a game changer. “We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant,” says Roger Cliff, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corporation, a global analysis company. ”But that dominance is now in question.”

America is not preparing to go to war with China. And China’s leaders have emphasized that they seek a “peaceful ascent,” as the nation develops economically. Still, the perceptions of relative military strength, and even just the hypothetical possibility of a war, have the potential to shape policies on issues such as Taiwan and North Korea. The new plane means that if there were a war, the Chinese could put up a real fight against American stealth fighter jets. If both sides had radar-proof aircraft, American pilots could have to resort to old-fashioned dog fights, which would mean some of their planes almost certainly would be shot down. “The Chinese are now saying to the U.S. ‘we are not getting pushed around anymore. You are going to have to deal with us on the basis of comparable peers,’ ” says Cliff.

The huge advantage that radar-invisibility brings is crucial to American pilots in East Asia, because in any future battle with China they are very likely to be severely outnumbered. True, the United States has air bases in Japan and South Korea, along with as many as three aircraft carriers in the region at any one time. But all told, America could bring only 200 fighter planes to the battle, says Cliff. (More jets could be brought in from Hawaii, but that would take several weeks.) That compares unfavorably with the 2,000 fighter planes that China would be able to send into the skies in a matter of hours.

Given the overwhelming disparity in numbers, American air strategy in the region relies on one F-22 pilot being able to take down multiple Chinese jets without getting hit. “What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses,” says Cliff. “But it’s just not going to be that one-sided anymore.”

The timing of the aircraft’s release seemed an unsubtle wave at the Taiwan issue. Gates’s visit came a year after the Chinese ended military ties with the U.S., to protest the Pentagon’s sale of $6.4 billion in arms to Taipei. Though tensions haven’t flared over the island nation--which China insists is part of its territory --in recent months, air power is a key to Taiwan’s ability to deter any potential Chinese invasion. “If hypothetically China wants to punish Taiwan, it is going to use ballistic missiles and then follow up with a second strike from the air to make sure Taiwan’s air force stays grounded,” says Michael McDevitt, a retired Navy rear admiral who oversaw an aircraft-carrier battle group and who is vice president of the CNA Center for Naval Analyses, in Virginia. Fortunately, neither China nor the United States is beating the drum for a fight over Taiwan. But China is now moving into the major leagues of air power. And that could reshape China-U.S. relations in the coming decade.
 
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kroko

Senior Member
Speaking of Engines, here's a quote from
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So I'm guessing the PLAAF is going to have to buy some of those PAK-FA engines huh? :(

Why did you bring the subject of engines? we all know that russia is more advanced than china in this regard. We are talking about stealth. Besides, this is a clearly biased article against j-20/chinese pilots/china. Why dont you bring a more imparcial assesment??

I'd say that that J-XX was simply polished to give the PRC a PR boost, but I'm not going to talk about that.

The russian government also used T-50 first flight as PR move. Hell, even Putin was there (compare with Hu, who APPARENTLY didnt even knew about it...) Why didnt they equip T-50 with all the "polish" ??? Or is it that that "polish" requires a lot of R&D ???

I noticed that you registered on this forum only on december. Are you sure you didnt come to this forum just to stealth bash J-20/china defence tech ???
 
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kwaigonegin

Colonel
LOL I bet Pentagon is now regretting they let Hollywood use F22 in Transformers and Iron Man etc. F22's secrets has all been leaked to China. To add salt to injury, maybe Chinese scientists even used pirated copies of the movies to gain all the F22 technologies.

now that's funny Schumacher!
 

cn_habs

Junior Member
Re: Stop making endless excuses. T-50 is clearly inferior to J-20.

Well, remember, no T-50s have flown yet, no J-20s have flown yet. Technically that thing that flew on January 11th was the J-XX, it's nothing more than a prototype at best and a technology demonstrator at least. Production of the J-20 will not commence for a very long time, and if you asked this opinionated armchair general, I'd say that that J-XX was simply polished to give the PRC a PR boost, but I'm not going to talk about that.

Again, many people have thrown around estimates for the T-50's stealth capabilities. But because no T-50s have been produced yet, you cannot judge it. Same for the J-20, it's stealth may be the size of a metal golf ball or a metal watermelon.

The Rafale, F-15E and others are all capable and proven aircrafts but aren't 5th gen aircrafts for a reason. Unless you change the whole chassis, there is no way that Sukhoi can make the traditional Flanker air intake as stealthy as the s-intake on the F-22, F35 and J-20.
 
Re: Stop making endless excuses. T-50 is clearly inferior to J-20.

The Rafale, F-15E and others are all capable and proven aircrafts but aren't 5th gen aircrafts for a reason. Unless you change the whole chassis, there is no way that Sukhoi can make the traditional Flanker air intake as stealthy as the s-intake on the F-22, F35 and J-20.

The lower fuselage of the Flanker is extremely unstealthy. Doesn't take too much to figure that one out
 
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