J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

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Quickie

Colonel
Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter

Hi Quickie
Yes, I used constant acceleration model. Your argument on wheel friction is correct. When aircraft gain speed the pressure on the ground goes less. However your conclusion that acceleration will go up is completely wrong. The reason is that there is another more important factor - the air's drag, which is highly non-linear. The acceleration actually will goes down as plane gain speed. The result I give is best scenario. I don't think the forum got my point.

I was thinking as the speed increases, the airflow rate into the engine will increase too causing the increase in engine thrust. I thought air drag would be minimal but now I recall the engine exhaust contribute to the resultant drag too as the aircraft speed increases. So, I kind of recall now that the resultant thrust actually decreases, although the engine thrust increases!
 
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mkruo

Just Hatched
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China tries to steal a march
By Trefor Moss

Former paramount leader Deng Xiaoping once advised his future successors to bide their time and hide their capabilities...

Tao Guang Yang Hui (韬光养晦) said by Deng Xiaoping actually means do not be show-ish (or craving limelight), be humble, do not try to lead, which can be summarized as "mind our own business and be humble in world affairs".

"bide our time and hide our capabilities" intepreted and used commonly as template by western media and their "China's expert" when it comes to Deng's TGYH which served as China's policy is totally misleading awfully. this misinterpretation tends to implying that China wanted some kind of revenge from its 100 years of humiliation from foreign vultures then, that they are buying their time and building their capabilities stealthily waiting the right time to strike those who used to oppress her. they even instilling the notion that China is the next nazi germany in the making. this misinterpretation served as the basis for those who proclaiming China's threat.

just by comparing the two meanings is akin to heaven and earth. are they really just purely misinterpret it or they have other agendas. surely they can get the correct interpreter should they really sincere to know the meaning. besides there are loz of good articles explaining TGYH on the net for reference.


the way they twisted the meaning all along (which is their norm practice also on their so called "objective and truth" media business) tends to give the impression that those "China's threat" advocator do have their agendas.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Ok guys this is it. Quit worrying about some article by some no-nothing about the military reporter or analyst or anyone for that matter..Get over yourselves. China's been in the big leagues now for several years. You don't see me crying everytime an article is published that bashes the US do you? If I did all I'd do was cry. ..Look at it like this in my sports analogy. For years China was a 3rd or 4th division side football(soccer) team.. Now they are in the EPL. The hits will keep on coming..

Earlier I posted this;

Stop bashing the press/media or other nations because they make comments real or not about a piece of military hardware. China's a World Power..China shall be challenged at every level. Everything she does will be scrutinized. Get over it. That's how the World works

Just because someone disagrees with you his his/her prerogative.

The bottom line is that no one really knows what this aircraft can do it's all speculation on everyones part.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST!


bd popeye super moderator
 

Blitzo

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You are completely wrong. The F-22 does not have one long bay. It has two on the bottom and two on the sides.

No, F-22 has a single weapons bay in the center which is wide, not long... (EDIT: Well alright, I can understand what you mean by long -- but in the realm of 5th generation aircraft weapon bays, the F-22's would be considered wide rather than long. The T-50's weapon bays would be considered "long")
F-22_Raptor_Internal_Weapons_Bay.jpg

There are two doors for the main bay but it's still considered one, not two.

J-20 has one long bay, that should tell you its payload is at least F-35 class, not F-22 class.

J-20 probably has a bay similar to the F-22's but could be a bit longer --regardlses we haven't got pictures of it yet. And having an internal payload in the F-35 realm isn't exactly something to brag about -- as of now they can only hold half the AA missile load of the F-22.
 
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Blitzo

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Re: no thrust vectoring?

I dont know if i can make this but, someone on keypublishing forum said that j-20 wasnt designed with thrust vectoring in mind, explaining why its canard design. See post nº 412. For those who understand, what do you make of it?
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Su-27 probably wasn't designed with thrust vectoring in mind either, but numerous variants and upgrades exist for the Flanker to have TVC.

And the poster that you link to says that "The rationale behind J-20's design was, according to early designer Song's paper, to use the canard as a lifting device, and to dump that canard generated lift at high alpha when the elevons just simply aren't able to generate more aft-body lift to counter the pitch-up moment. Obviously thrust-vectoring wasn't in his mind when the paper was written."

It's one thing for a paper to not include the idea and another for an aircraft to be designed for or with the potential to have TVC. everything we've heard so far points to J-20 eventually getting some form of TVC capability probably with WS-15. Just wait it out.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Guys I should have made myself more specific. You may respond to the articles in the same sort of language the article was written. No excrement talk. No foul language. No name calling and above all no crying about the west hates China. Like I said the media bashes the US everyday..you don't see me crying! I don't want to inhibit the forum. Post within the parameters of the rules!

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Blitzo

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Huitong's had a massive overhaul of his J-20 article section:

"The J-20 #2001 prototype made its maiden flight on January 11, 2011 over the city of Chengdu, wearing a distinctive dark green color scheme (RAM coating applied?) and powered by two indigenous WS-1X turbofan engines. The prototype features a pair of all-moving tailfins and Russian 1.44 style twin ventral stabilizing fins and tail booms, which shield the engine nozzles but might increase RCS. It also features an F-22 style forward fuselage, including Caret inlets but with DSI bumps installed at the upper inner corners, as well as a one-piece frameless canopy. A samll dark diamond shaped panel can be seen on the side of the nose, which could be the window for certain EO systems, such as MAWS or air data sensor. Besides a large belly weapon bay for short/long-range AAMs (PL-10, PL-12C/D & PL-21), two samller lateral weapon bays have been identified behind the air inlets for short-range AAMs (PL-10). However the canards appear to extend slightly above the plane of the main wings and there are four large underwing actuator fairings which might not be stealth optimized. The overall size of J-20 appears larger than both F-22 and T-50, suggesting a bigger fuel and/or weapon load for various types of AA/AG missions. First disclosed by US Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) in 1997 as XXJ, J-20 is a 4th generation heavy multi-role fighter to enter the service between 2015 and 2018. Since early 90s both CAC/611 Institute and SAC/601 Institute had been working their own designs for a twin-engine heavy fighter with stealth capability and maneuverability comparable to American F-22. It was speculated that 601 Institute was working on a "tri-plane" design (J-18?) based on canard/conventional layout/V-shape tailfin while 611 Institute working on a design based on canard/tailless delta wing/all moving V-shape tailfin/lateral DSI/bump inlet layout. All designs were expected to feature a belly internal weapon bay to reduce RCS, which has been speculated to be <0.05m2 (head-on). J-20 also incorporates an advanced FBW (FBL?) system fully integrated with the fire-control and the engine systems. Its fire-control radar is expected to be AESA (Type 1475/KLJ5?) and the next generation datalink is thought to have been installed which provides secure networking with other J-20s and AWACS. The aircraft also features a "pure" glass cockpit (two large color LCDs plus a few smaller ones and a wide-angle holographic HUD). Many of these subsystems have been tested onboard J-10B to speed up the development (see above). A dorsal receptacle might be installed to reduce RCS instead of a nose probe for IFR purpose. The exact type of engine powering prototypes is unclear, even though a Chinese or Russian turbofan engine including AL-31F (13t class), or improved WS-10 (WS-1X?) (14t class) has been speculated. Leaked images suggest that two different engines were installed (separately on two prototypes?). One is AL-31F, the other is the improved WS-1X with a new "stealth" nozzle to reduce RCS and IR emission. However it is yet to demonstrate an axisymmetric TVC capablity. It was reported in November 2006 that a T/W=10 17t class turbofan (WS-15/"large thrust") with a TVC nozzle is being developed and will eventually power J-20s in production. Russian assistance was also speculated in terms of software support for calculating the RCS and aerodynamics of various designs. The overall performance of J-20 is thought to be superior to that of Russian T-50 (maneuverability & supercruise) but still inferior to that of American F-22 (electronics & supercruise). In August 2008 it was reported that 611 Institute was selected to be the main contractor for the development of J-20 and 601 Institute as the sub-contractor. Subsequently a full-scale metal mockup was built at CAC. One rumor in May 2010 claimed that 611 Institute started to construct the first prototype, which was expected to fly by the end of 2010, even though the full configuration model won't fly until a few years later. Currently two prototypes have been constructed and the first high-speed taxi trial by 2001 took place on December 22, 2010.
- Last Updated 1/12/11 "

Does anyone know what is the FBL he makes reference to? I know of FBW and fly by optics, but FBL is a new one (Fly By L... acerations?)

Also, I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet, but the J-20 prototype's cockpit seems to have a level of the gold coating which we see on F-22s and some F-16s which reduce RCS.
 

nameless

Junior Member
No, F-22 has a single weapons bay in the center which is wide, not long... (EDIT: Well alright, I can understand what you mean by long -- but in the realm of 5th generation aircraft weapon bays, the F-22's would be considered wide rather than long. The T-50's weapon bays would be considered "long")
F-22_Raptor_Internal_Weapons_Bay.jpg

There are two doors for the main bay but it's still considered one, not two.



J-20 probably has a bay similar to the F-22's but could be a bit longer --regardlses we haven't got pictures of it yet. And having an internal payload in the F-35 realm isn't exactly something to brag about -- as of now they can only hold half the AA missile load of the F-22.

F35 configuration is different, obviously different than J20, I dont know how you can conclude they have similar payload. Also F22 holds six while F35 can hold four in the belly.
500x_screen_shot_2010-09-27_at_8.38.50_am.jpg
 
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Engineer

Major
Does anyone know what is the FBL he makes reference to? I know of FBW and fly by optics, but FBL is a new one (Fly By L... acerations?)
FBL stands for Fly-by-Light. On FBW aircraft, signals are transmitted between avionics via wires, whereas an aircraft with FBL uses fiber optics to transmit these signals.
 

Blitzo

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F35 configuration is different, obviously different than J20, I dont know how you can conclude they have similar payload.
500x_screen_shot_2010-09-27_at_8.38.50_am.jpg

I know -- I said "J-20 probably has a bay similar to the F-22's but could be a bit longer --regardlses we haven't got pictures of it yet. And having an internal payload in the F-35 realm isn't exactly something to brag about -- as of now they can only hold half the AA missile load of the F-22."

It was roger who said the J-20's payload would somehow be in the F-35 class, I was just pointing out that even if it were so,the amount of munitions they could carry is far less than the F-22.

FBL stands for Fly-by-Light. On FBW aircraft, signals are transmitted between avionics via wires, whereas an aircraft with FBL uses fiber optics to transmit these signals.

Ah right, so it is synonymous with fly by optics. Thanks a lot.
 
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