New sailless SSN (provisional)

[sheogorath]

My (very superficial) understanding is that an ongoing concern for U.S. submarine design is the tendency for a large, forward positioned sail, as American boats tend to have, to contribute to "snap roll" phenomenon whereby the submarine rolls into a rapid turn and, if the roll is not corrected, subsequently into a dive, and that this has prompted exploration of smaller submarine sails to attenuate the phenomenon.

Yeah, thats one of the reasons why US subs have an extra set of fins at the stern as the issue got worse when they decided to remove the diving planes from the sail. There is a possibility that X planes help reduce this problem making smaller sails more viable.

 

[AndrewS]

During Tuesday's Yankee talk show, he revealed that the Type 041 may not be mass-produced. Combined with new satellite imagery, it now appears the PLAN has decided to continue building its fleet around large, more conventional SSNs. So, you might be right; based on previous development experience, JN has unveiled another large SSN…

My personal guess is that JN’s design is closer to the Virginia-class blk4/5, using a similar hull size but with a modified small sail and X-rudder. Huludao's design is more like the Seawolf Plus, focusing on the pursuit and hunting of underwater targets…

In addition, the JN design (10m x 110m ) are a little smaller than the existing Type-093B.

Let's assume this is the Low-end design and the Type-095 is the High-end design.

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So the Type-095 is used to hunt other submarines, carrier groups, and also long-distance missions where it benefits from its size and performance.

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So a low-end design typically has 80% of the performance but is only 50% of the cost?

If they were to reuse a single 75MW reactor from the Type-093B, they should still be able to reach 26+ knots given a 10m hull diameter and the small sail. That is still fast enough for most missions against SSKs or surface ships. Or perhaps it does use the Type-095 reactor, which may be the lower-cost option.

Then assume it's been updated somewhat, so it's noise level would be comparable to ocean background levels, like the Virginia and Type-095.

Presumably the Type-095 has been designed to operate at 400-500m depths like the Seawolf, whereas 300-400m is more "standard".

In littoral operations, there should be little real-world performance difference between a Hi-Lo SSN design.

It's shallow waters, it's noisy from all the ship traffic and turbulence from seafloor features, and we're not going to see targets like carrier groups go anywhere near a hostile shoreline.

So for shallow water missions and missions up to the Second Island Chain, you'd be better off buying two smaller low-end SSNs for the price of a single Type-095?

 

[Tomboy]

In addition, the JN design (10m x 110m ) ara little smaller than the existing Type-093B.

This assumption is wrong, the JN hull is larger than 093B, If its single hulled than it is probably 10m by 120m. It is possible it may even displace a comparable tonnage to the 09V due to its length.

 

[ACuriousPLAFan]

I think the width might be more than just 10-11m. This is just the waterline, the actual dimensions should be more

Now that thinking about it, I believe you have a point regarding the beam of the 09X SSN.


(From left to right: 093B, 09X, 095)

For one, I think we could see a larger portion of the 095's hull appearing above the water surface inside that eastern launching drydock at Huludao, which I believe the photo is taken when the drydock is either getting completely drained or just starting to be flooded. On the other hand, as the boat is already being moored at the fitting out basin, the 09X looks to be "sitting" somewhat lower in the water (i.e., there is more of the submarine's hull submerged beneath the water surface than is visible from above).

SOYO has brought up this observation on Weibo. In addition, Adorable Whale also stated that the 09X has a largely similar beam as the 095 in a Weibo comment.



Hence, I do have the opinion/observation that this 09X SSN at Jiangnan is quite likely to have a similar hull beam as the 095 SSN (~12-12+ meters), if not quite close (high-11 meters), rather than in the 10-11 meter-range.

Of course, if anyone has an FHD photo of said 09X while it's just about to be launched from the final assembly hall (i.e., before hitting the water, which would've shown the full beam of the boat) that points toward the opposite inference, please do mention.

 

[bsdnf]

Xi Yazhou believes this is the prototype of the PLA‘s SSN(X).

The remaining protrusions can generate some vortex lift, similar to the bump intake of a fighter jet, maintaining a certain vertical stabilizer effect. Although this will still produce some hydrodynamic noise, it is still much better than a sail.

If the 09V is a fifth-gen underwater fighter jet, then the 09X is a sixth-generation underwater fighter jet that the Americans do not yet possess.

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[bsdnf]

By the way, Russia's next-gen sailless nuclear submarine concept adopts a small, slanted, retractable bow diving plane design similar to a ventral fin.

I'm wondering if the 09X also uses a similar design, working in conjunction with the X-rudder and the remaining bump for stability? This is definitely below the waterline, we can't see it from satellite images.

 

[Tomboy]

Though it seems on the Chinese side most people now revised up the beam to 12m. Cute Orca even speculated that this new submarine is a highly modified 09V or atleast shares many design details and parts.

 

[WaterbDoge]

View attachment 176103

If we remove the hull below the waterline of 09V (bottom paint has brighter colour here) and only compare waterline width with the new SSN, the diameter should be close

 

[oleracea]

View attachment 176103
(From left to right: 093B, 09X, 095)

09X's pumpjet being partially above water suggests it's sitting quite high, compared to 093B's pumpjet being completely submerged. Unless 09X's pumpjet is significantly bigger?

 

[Blitzo]

I'm just wondering why this submarine looks like just an experimental vessel.

This question doesn't make sense.
There's nothing about this submarine which decisively makes it look like an experimental vessel.

It "might" be an experimental vessel, or it "might" be the first of a new class of vessels.

Also, is there any possibility of this submarine having VLS?

Yes, there is a possibility.

The lack of clear images means there are possibilities for lots of things which are difficult to exclude at this stage.