Chinese Engine Development

[Roger604]

Is it just me or does the FWS10A look more like the AL-31F? If so, those J-10's we identify as "using AL-31F" might really be flying domestic.

 

[dingyibvs]

Is it just me or does the FWS10A look more like the AL-31F? If so, those J-10's we identify as "using AL-31F" might really be flying domestic.

No, the petals are clearly shorter and it's single layered, consistent with WS-10.

 

[ReneDad]

those J-10's we identify as "using AL-31F" might really be flying domestic.

This is an interesting assumption I have been thinking of for a long time. Though a WS-10/10A looks very different from a AL-31F/FN, but observers can only identify whether a F-11/10 has been fitted with WS-10/10A by the shape of its engine's nozzle because other parts of the engine is inside the fuselage so he can not see them.

But what if PLAAF has decided to fit its J-11/10 fighters with the combination of a WS-10/10A mainbody and AL-31F/FN-style nozzle? The AL-31F/FN's nozzle looks like simpler than WS-10A's showed in Zhuhai aviation exhibition so it may have maintenance and logistics advantage so PLA is more favour to it. And I think it is not difficult to Chinese engineers to copy a Russian nozzle and fit it on their domestic WS-10 engine.

This assumption can explain why China has stopped importing AL-31F engine for years but the photos of newly-built J-11 with "AL-31F" engines still have been appearing on many Chinese websites all the time.

 

[maxx]

Nah, I doubt it.

I believe the internal construct dictates the nozzle design and considering WS-10A and AL-31F are completely different, the nozzle design should be different too. I don't think they can substitute the nozzle without affecting the performance.

 

[tphuang]

This is an interesting assumption I have been thinking of for a long time. Though a WS-10/10A looks very different from a AL-31F/FN, but observers can only identify whether a F-11/10 has been fitted with WS-10/10A by the shape of its engine's nozzle because other parts of the engine is inside the fuselage so he can not see them.

But what if PLAAF has decided to fit its J-11/10 fighters with the combination of a WS-10/10A mainbody and AL-31F/FN-style nozzle? The AL-31F/FN's nozzle looks like simpler than WS-10A's showed in Zhuhai aviation exhibition so it may have maintenance and logistics advantage so PLA is more favour to it. And I think it is not difficult to Chinese engineers to copy a Russian nozzle and fit it on their domestic WS-10 engine.

This assumption can explain why China has stopped importing AL-31F engine for years but the photos of newly-built J-11 with "AL-31F" engines still have been appearing on many Chinese websites all the time.

do you really think it's that simple to combine modern turbofan engines just like that? They had some AL-31F stock-piled from before, I'm pretty sure. The problems with WS-10A was the main reason for J-11B's delay. It only seemed to have been addressed in the past year.

btw, I'm under the impression from maya previously that FWS-10A is for J-10 and FWS-10 is for J-11.

 

[Centrist]

Deleted

 

[maya]

Hi Maya...From a vague sort of way it's tail cone suggests possible thrust vectoring, care to comment? I wonder if it has achieved it's intended goal of 140 k-newton thrust level. Of course your thoughts would be appreciated.

Nope.it's a conventional ejector nozzle.

Based on FWS10,the interim engine to power the 4th generation fighter has been under development for a while.
last year ,one demonstration engine demonstrated more than ~14000kgf thrust during a sea-level static testing .

 

[maya]

the 606 institute incorporated many features of D30-F6 and AL-31F into the design of domestic fully adjustable nozzle, such as active/independent control of the subsonic flow petals by means of 18 hydraulic cylinders and aerodynamic control of the supersonic flow petals;

similar to AL-31F ,installation of FWS-10/10A requires a set of flexible petals to ensure the smooth transition from nacelle to nozzle.

Comparison of the FWS-10 and AL-31F's nozzles

 

[maya]

the difference between that two engines is simply a set of flexible petals installed or not

AL-31FP without flexible petals

AL-31FP installed

 

[maozedong]

the difference between that two engines is merely a set of flexible petals installed or not

[qimg]http://himg2.huanqiu.com/attachment/081104/b91fda3f2c.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://img4.cache.netease.com/photo/0001/2010-11-15/900x600_6LIB350P4CA50001.JPG[/qimg]

maya,the source claim that WS-10 already started mass production, annual 100 for J-11B,11BS,11BH?