video leak on YouTube of Chinese trawler incident.

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
the Japanese ships should have been arrested for irresponsible use of the sea causing danger to others, they did enough to warrant it long before the collisions occurred.

Errr theres this precedent with the antics of the anti whalers. Whats that guys name Pete Bethume or something, he only ended up being prosecuted for trespassing on a Japanese boat?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
You know, that is an EXCELLENT point, Sampan. Why would a simple fisherman risk the means of his livelihood like that?

He would have been declared a hero, and the country would donated/ given him a new and flashier boat with all the latest fish finder thingys:D
 

Quickie

Colonel
The video was shot from the Japanese patrol boat. That's why it's not so easy to judge which boat is actually changing direction or slowing down or speeding up. On the second collision, one reason could be the Chinese captain was trying to turn his boat to the opposite direction of the patrol boat and to go behind it in order to get away.
 

solarz

Brigadier
He would have been declared a hero, and the country would donated/ given him a new and flashier boat with all the latest fish finder thingys:D

LOL, if he was that good at predicting the future, he really missed his calling when he became a fisherman. He should've played the stocks like all the other chinese.

Seriously though, Sampan's point puts a really HUGE question mark on the Japanese accusation. Motive is a huge factor in judging any case, and in this case, it is far more likely that the Japanese coast guard initiated the collision (interesting that they had a camera handy... is it SOP to film their interceptions?) in order to have an excuse to arrest the fisherman. Most likely they wanted to intimidate and make a point.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Which goes back to my assessment that the Japanese wanted this to happen and was the side responsible for creating the dangerous situation.

Rubbish. The Japanese coastguard wanted to stop and detain the vessel. Why would they want to be hit and endanger themselves? They wouldn't.
And who is responsible for pulling dangerous maneuvers for long period of time causing a lot of stress for the poor fisherman?

The trawler crew for sailing into disputed waters and fishing there.

The trawler captain could have avoided the collision, but so could the Japanese ships, all they have to do is maintain a safe and responsible distance from the trawler

Right, could you explain to me how you stop a ship by keeping so far away from it that it can't make suicidal charges into you? You have to get nearby, or no one would ever stop.

Bottom line is, if we leave out all the territorial dispute, the Japanese ships should have been arrested for irresponsible use of the sea causing danger to others

They were only doing their duty, and at no time did they do anything that was dangerous. They knew where the Chinese trawler was and what speed it was going at. You can't blame them for not assuming that the Chinese captain wouldn't go mad and start trying to ram the bigger ships.

The video was shot from the Japanese patrol boat. That's why it's not so easy to judge which boat is actually changing direction or slowing down or speeding up.

Why? You can see the trawler's wake in all the videos.

On the second collision, one reason could be the Chinese captain was trying to turn his boat to the opposite direction of the patrol boat and to go behind it in order to get away.

So by turning to port in the direction of the coastguard ship he hoped to move away from it?
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
(interesting that they had a camera handy... is it SOP to film their interceptions?) in order to have an excuse to arrest the fisherman. Most likely they wanted to intimidate and make a point.


Quite some time ago I read an item where the Japanese CG were harassing a Taiwanese/ SK ?? boat. I cant recall whether it was a fishing boat or a boat full of protesters. Well an incident occured with the Japanese giving their side of the story, only to be made a mockey of when the other side produced a video of the whole incident. Totally shamed the japanese had to apologise etcetc.
So I guess from that time onwards its been a policy of taking their own video camera along when on patrol.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Rubbish. The Japanese coastguard wanted to stop and detain the vessel. Why would they want to be hit and endanger themselves? They wouldn't.

LOL, and in that fantasy world of yours, how would the Japanese coastguard go accomplishing that? Ask them politely?

The trawler crew for sailing into disputed waters and fishing there.

LOL, and obviously NOT the Japanese for patrolling and detaining fishermen in disputed waters?

Obviously, you also agree that the Vietnamese fishermen are at fault when they get arrested by Chinese coastguard for fishing in disputed waters.

Bladerunner said:
Quite some time ago I read an item where the Japanese CG were harassing a Taiwanese/ SK ?? boat. I cant recall whether it was a fishing boat or a boat full of protesters. Well an incident occured with the Japanese giving their side of the story, only to be made a mockey of when the other side produced a video of the whole incident. Totally shamed the japanese had to apologise etcetc.
So I guess from that time onwards its been a policy of taking their own video camera along when on patrol.

Interesting... so you're saying that the Japanese have a history of lying about these kinds of events?

(A heavily edited 2-3 minutes video of the incident is hardly proof of anything!)
 
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xywdx

Junior Member
Rubbish. The Japanese coastguard wanted to stop and detain the vessel. Why would they want to be hit and endanger themselves? They wouldn't.


The trawler crew for sailing into disputed waters and fishing there.



Right, could you explain to me how you stop a ship by keeping so far away from it that it can't make suicidal charges into you? You have to get nearby, or no one would ever stop.



They were only doing their duty, and at no time did they do anything that was dangerous. They knew where the Chinese trawler was and what speed it was going at. You can't blame them for not assuming that the Chinese captain wouldn't go mad and start trying to ram the bigger ships.



Why? You can see the trawler's wake in all the videos.



So by turning to port in the direction of the coastguard ship he hoped to move away from it?

Your entire post is based on the assumption that the Japanese had a right to be doing what they did in disputed waters, it means nothing because that just goes back to "no it's mine" argument.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
LOL, and in that fantasy world of yours, how would the Japanese coastguard go accomplishing that? Ask them politely?

I don't know, what would the Chinese coastguard do had someone been tresspassing in waters they considered Chinese?

LOL, and obviously NOT the Japanese for patrolling and detaining fishermen in disputed waters?

Well if they didn't then they wouldn't be disputed, they'd be considered Chinese because the Japanese coastguard wouldn't attempt to enforce Japan's claims.

Obviously, you also agree that the Vietnamese fishermen are at fault when they get arrested by Chinese coastguard for fishing in disputed waters.

Depends, do they routinely try to ram Chinese coastguard vessels? Assuming they did and it was somewhere like the Paracels, yes it would be their own fault for getting arrested.

(A heavily edited 2-3 minutes video of the incident is hardly proof of anything!)

I'm sure you'd have said that if the video had been shot by the Chinese trawler crew and showed the Japanese coastguard ships cutting their engines right in front of the trawler.

Your entire post is based on the assumption that the Japanese had a right to be doing what they did in disputed waters

No, it's based on the fact that the Chinese crew deliberately twice rammed Japanese vessels. If they had shown no aggressive behaviour and just been detained for being there, there would be a fair argument that they should have been sent on their way fairly quickly. But they decided to use violence.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
This is what the USCG regs say about stopping a vessel. Their regulations are based on international maritime law..

So in general >>>If your vessel is hailed to halt by a military/police/coast guard vessel your vessel must yield to the military vessel.

US Code, Title 14, Section 89:
Sec. 89. Law enforcement

(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship's documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.
(b) The officers of the Coast Guard insofar as they are engaged, pursuant to the authority contained in this section, in enforcing any law of the United States shall:
(1) be deemed to be acting as agents of the particular
executive department or independent establishment charged with
the administration of the particular law; and
(2) be subject to all the rules and regulations promulgated by
such department or independent establishment with respect to the
enforcement of that law.
(c) The provisions of this section are in addition to any powers conferred by law upon such officers, and not in limitation of any powers conferred by law upon such officers, or any other officers of the United States.
 
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