J-20... The New Generation Fighter

[kwaigonegin]

Re: New Generation Fighter

I'll be very interested in seeing what this aircraft looks like although if I'm guessing, I'm going to say it probably looks a LOT like the lovechild between F-22 and F23 with a dash of T-50 in it.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Re: New Generation Fighter

I'll be very interested in seeing what this aircraft looks like although if I'm guessing, I'm going to say it probably looks a LOT like the lovechild between F-22 and F23 with a dash of T-50 in it.

Well people are going to be saying that even if it comes out to be a delta design.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: New Generation Fighter

I'll be very interested in seeing what this aircraft looks like although if I'm guessing, I'm going to say it probably looks a LOT like the lovechild between F-22 and F23 with a dash of T-50 in it.

Err won't that end up to something nearly identical to an F-22?

I'm expecting something canard-y on LEX with trapezoidal wings, the airframe maybe a tad longer than F-22 and T-50.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Re: New Generation Fighter

I'll be very interested in seeing what this aircraft looks like although if I'm guessing, I'm going to say it probably looks a LOT like the lovechild between F-22 and F23 with a dash of T-50 in it.

With canards, of course, and belly intake. Also keep in mind that there are three sets of wheels and they are all round.

On a serious note I don't think that we'll see it fly at Zhuhai. The best we can hope for is some sort of model or if we are lucky, a full scaled prototype.

 

[no_name]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Is the intakes of su-27 counts as side or belly, or a bit of both?

 

[tphuang]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Well to be fair hasn't this been the purpose of the whole thread? We've been speculating from day one. I am just hoping that there will be a brave "fan qiang dang" who will snap the right picture in the right time. Then we'll have some pretty good arguments on whether it is PS or not.

And I have not been a fan of this much speculation. You can't tell people to accept something as a fact just people a bunch of shrimps on Chinese bbs said so. It only means that rumours indicate it will happen. That's it. If you post this on AFM and say they should believe you, nobody will take you seriously.

Just a couple of weeks ago, a bunch of people on Chinese forum speculated that Su-27s got creamed by F-4s and caused pages and pages of alarmed posts on Chinese forums. And then, it all came out to be made up, even though certain big shrimp supported it at one point.

What does that mean? At best, we can say that best evidences support the comments of these big shrimps. That's it. To be conclusive, you need pictures.

The fighter is already under the land test phase, its weeks away from maiden flight, now almost every big bosses and ex-big bosses pay a visist to CAC in turn.

Another good news is, it seems that this time the government dont want to hide it from the public anymore, after successful maiden flight it will leak the pics of this thing through at least some semi-official channels like the way we saw J-10B, so we will get some very clear shots of this thing very very soon (this year or the beginning of next year).

you mean high speed taxi test?

J-10B and 4th gen are completely different matters. Just because these flanker and J-10 variant photos are coming out soon, doesn't mean 4th gen photos will come out that soon. Although, I don't think people will have to wait as long as we waited for J-10 photos.

With first flight in 2010, we can expect J-XX to enter service by 2013. This means China's 5th generation fighter enters service much earlier than anybody expected.

At this pace, China does not even need the J-10B anymore. Go straight from existing AL-31F based J-10A directly to J-XX. It's only three more years.

I hope when it enters service it will use the high T/W ratio domestic engine, not just the regular FWS-10A.

this is exactly what I'm talking. When speculations start, we get overly optimistic posts like this.

Take a look at how long it is taking F-35 to achieve operational status. First flight to operation status is a long time. An upgrade like J-10B can achieve operation status much faster. J-10 variants will be produced by CAC for years to come.

Indeed.

Especially since the domestic engine may not even be ready in 3 years.

What the JXX uses on the first flight will not be its service engine, so they will not mass produce the plane until the domestic engine is ready (unless something drastic happens, like the whole domestic engine falling through, or there is a major worsening of relations that looks likely to lead to war etc. But these are extremely unlikely scenarios).

Even after the engine is ready, they will still need to time to integrate it and do all the flight certification. It won't take as long as normal with a re-engine since they would have already planned for it, but it is still going to take time.

So even if first flight is imminent, and everything goes as planned, we may well only see a few squadrons for testing and evaluation by 2013. At most they may set up one regiment for pilot conversion and maybe also aggressor training for the rest of the PLA to figure out ways to counter stealth opponents.

When the plane begins to be fully inducted will depend mostly on when the domestic engine can be finished.

Although if the Jxx is so close to first flight, it could open the door for J10B exports. I can think of a few air forces that might be rubbing their hands together at the prospect.

take a look at how long it took J-10, J-10B and J-11B in the testing phase. Use that one real piece of evidence that PLAAF head said, 2017 to 2019 for induction.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Re: New Generation Fighter

take a look at how long it took J-10, J-10B and J-11B in the testing phase. Use that one real piece of evidence that PLAAF head said, 2017 to 2019 for induction.

Well the thing is the said head of PLAAF, He Weirong, said that the J-XX program is underway and that the plane will fly this year or the next. That lends quite a bit of credence to the Big Shrimp's stories, in my opinion.

I do agree that introduction won't happen until 2017 or later.

 

[challenge]

Re: New Generation Fighter

And I have not been a fan of this much speculation. You can't tell people to accept something as a fact just people a bunch of shrimps on Chinese bbs said so. It only means that rumours indicate it will happen. That's it. If you post this on AFM and say they should believe you, nobody will take you seriously.

Just a couple of weeks ago, a bunch of people on Chinese forum speculated that Su-27s got creamed by F-4s and caused pages and pages of alarmed posts on Chinese forums. And then, it all came out to be made up, even though certain big shrimp supported it at one point.

What does that mean? At best, we can say that best evidences support the comments of these big shrimps. That's it. To be conclusive, you need pictures.

you mean high speed taxi test?

J-10B and 4th gen are completely different matters. Just because these flanker and J-10 variant photos are coming out soon, doesn't mean 4th gen photos will come out that soon. Although, I don't think people will have to wait as long as we waited for J-10 photos.

this is exactly what I'm talking. When speculations start, we get overly optimistic posts like this.

Take a look at how long it is taking F-35 to achieve operational status. First flight to operation status is a long time. An upgrade like J-10B can achieve operation status much faster. J-10 variants will be produced by CAC for years to come.


take a look at how long it took J-10, J-10B and J-11B in the testing phase. Use that one real piece of evidence that PLAAF head said, 2017 to 2019 for induction.

do turkey participate in Red flag exercise in the US?

 

[Red Moon]

Re: New Generation Fighter

do turkey participate in Red flag exercise in the US?

Why are we talking about turkeys when it's not thanksgiving yet?... or, what does this have to do with anything?

 

[70092]

Re: New Generation Fighter

The tech gap between 4th generation fighters and 3rd generation fighters is the largest among all fighters since WW2, probably comparable or even bigger than tech gap between 3rd generation fighters and 1st generation fighters due to stealth.

A J-20, lets say, with even J-11's engines and radars, are still way way better than J-11 in air-combat thanks to being stealth: internal military excerise between J-10 and J-11 show J-10 can beat J-11 easily (8:1), partially because J-10 can spot a J-11 ~15-20 km more than J-11 can spot a J-10 due to J-11's huge RCS, this gives J-10 a critical advantage such that they can make their plan to trap the J-11s.

And now replace J-10 with a stealth fighter and you can imagine the outcome.

Needless to say J-20's radar is highly likely being ready in time, the only part which lag behind is engine.

So when J-20 become ready (besides the engine part), there is no point to waste any resources on the last generation fighters, they will enter production with the downgraded engines, and when the more capable engines become ready, they will introduced them into their later batch of J-20s, just like the case of how Soviet handles their MiG-23 production.

Just during one most recent TV interview, a professor and major general of PLA's national defense university, openly said the priority for Chinese 4th generation fighters are (from high to low): 1, Stealth, 2, Networks, datalink and advanced radar and sensors/electrionics 3, Mechanical performance like supercruise and post-stall manuerves etcs.

Which just proved my points.