Cause it's basically more of a mini-Burke than a "proper" FFG
054B/new generation frigate
- Thread starter Blitzo
- Start date
A FFG design that's really bad at being FFG while also really bad at being a DDG isn't something I would describe as ambitious.
054B is ambitous, it need to both achieve next generation capability while also able to achieve quantity of 054A.
Quantity very much factor in system capability, especially for FFGs.
Letting scope creep without regard for program cost is the easiest and least ambitious thing you can do.
It's delusional maybe, some may even say retarded
Let's not overglaze the 054B too much, we don't know if it'll stick around.
You don't need to glaze to say a design is more ambitious than Constellation
Constellation started off as FREMM so it can be built quickly and in quantity, that was ambitious, the moment its scope started creeping, that ambition was abandoned in favour of easy.
054B obviously aimed to be built in quantity and take over from 054A, otherwise it would have switched to UVLS.
You can argue we don't know yet if that goal can be reached, but the goal is ambitious.
And I say given information so far the likelihood of 054B "staying around" is a bit higher than Constellation lol
Constellation has arround 75% of deplacement of the Burke for a third(32) of the VLS. Big like a Type 052D destroyer but with half the VLS.
The crew is way smaller tho. Right now the two hulls will cost near the same price of a Burke each. Can they just optimize and slim down the armement of the Burke class to have less crew and a cheaper ship at this rate...
Last edited:
Given the demise of constellation class, my thought on 054B has changed quite a bit. In short, it's waste of my time.
My longer thought on this:
constellation class had mission creep because USN realized after it picked basing on FREMM class that the original hull really isn't sufficient to protect itself in open water against China's hypersonic threat.
Given that is the case, I really wonder why 054B in its current form is something you want to mass produce? Especially, if you want to have it as a legit ASW escort to carrier fleet. The main issue imo is that it's propulsion is not appropriate for something expected to be competitive in 20 years. Instead of using some form of IEPS that uses the most powerful diesel engines (something 9MW+) + battery pack, it still uses CODAD, which is simply not efficient for energy usage. This would prevent it from higher power applications that is likely to have very high leap in capability in the future. Anything from putting high power laser, higher power sensors to more powerful motors that.
054 made a lot of sense to me as an interim class to test out new hull and propulsion so that 054A can fully explore the new platform. 054B has a larger hull & more powerful engine, but it's still a very old propulsion concept that's not suited for future combat.
And they are ordering more of this? For all the decisions that PLAN has made, this is the most puzzling.
My longer thought on this:
constellation class had mission creep because USN realized after it picked basing on FREMM class that the original hull really isn't sufficient to protect itself in open water against China's hypersonic threat.
Given that is the case, I really wonder why 054B in its current form is something you want to mass produce? Especially, if you want to have it as a legit ASW escort to carrier fleet. The main issue imo is that it's propulsion is not appropriate for something expected to be competitive in 20 years. Instead of using some form of IEPS that uses the most powerful diesel engines (something 9MW+) + battery pack, it still uses CODAD, which is simply not efficient for energy usage. This would prevent it from higher power applications that is likely to have very high leap in capability in the future. Anything from putting high power laser, higher power sensors to more powerful motors that.
054 made a lot of sense to me as an interim class to test out new hull and propulsion so that 054A can fully explore the new platform. 054B has a larger hull & more powerful engine, but it's still a very old propulsion concept that's not suited for future combat.
And they are ordering more of this? For all the decisions that PLAN has made, this is the most puzzling.
Only four more confirmed from last year, most people claim they'll move to a new cleansheet frigate design
I feel like this was never the goal. Otherwise they would have gone with CODLAG. With its current propulsion stack it won't be able to keep up with the carriers and destroyers. Type 054B to me is simply a slightly bigger, better Type 054A. It might not be very useful in CSGs but it would be a good part of SAGs or even smaller groups of 1-2 ships.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I think the mistake you are making is in viewing everything through the prism of carrier strike group operations.
Yes, CSGs are tip of the spear, best of the best door kickers, but your whole war machine can’t just be about the speartip.
The CSG, 055s and 052Ds are the sword, the 054A/B and 056s are the shields.
As the CSG engages enemy core fleet elements and eliminate them and shatters the island chains to push further out into the open pacific for offensive combat operations, that leaves ever increasing amounts of deep rear real estate to patrol and guard. And it’s not like the PLAN is going to make a beeline for Pearl or San Diego as soon as it’s punched through the second island chain. Most likely, they will seek to establish a cordon in the mid pacific and defence that against enemy forces seeking to breach. That’s what the 054As and Bs are for.
These ships are not meant to face off against enemy fleets or air wings directly. They are there to catch leakers that slip past the CSGs; provide survivable (against the threats they are realistically expected to face) patrol and sensor coverage to ensure there are no or at least minimal sensor dead zones around and behind the CSGs; and provide early warning and first response against any enemies forces that seeks to slip past or flank friendly CSGs.
For that kind of mission, endurance is the primary requirement, speed is secondary.
Sure, having just as many 055s would be far superior, but even China has budgetary and resource limits and cannot build 055s like they are 054Bs.
In that respects, the 054B holds true to the PLA’s core tradition that good enough is good enough. That’s how they have the budget left over for all the no-expense-spared top tier goodies without drowning China in debt like America has done trying to get gold plated everything.
I think a great roll for them would be to accompany the Type 052D’s, because they will bring Z-20’s to that party which the 052D’s lack.
Type 052DL’s can be accompanied by Type 054A/AG’s and again that little SAG will have a spot for Z-20’s.
The result could be that every Type 052D/DL can be accompanied by a Type 054A/AG/B and each of those groups would have a Z-20.