The Kashmir conflict 2025.

[siegecrossbow]

They probably would be if it were a general war. It would be escalation.



1) What strike package simply "concentrates on targeting"? Every proper strike package should have a counter components for enemy fighter, AD and EW.

2) By all indications, there was no air battle after the first few hours. There were no signs of intensive air battle when Pakistan retaliated. In fact, after the initial flurry there was only one more rumor of a Rafale hit at Sialkot but nothing else.

It looks to me like the IAF had grounded itself even during Pakistan's retaliation. The J-17s that might or might not hit the S-400 did not receive pursuit.

Lastly, not a single report of an Indian BVR found, fired or encountered during the whole episode. No PAF fighter ever had to "dodge" an Indian missile to prove its mettle.
View attachment 151966

I thought Chinese missiles were junk? This doesn’t prove anything.

 

[AndrewJ]

Someone should come to stop this. This thread has become trolls' playground.

 

[N00B]

What proof is there that those killed were responsible for the terror attacks in India, or even terrorists at all?

After the 2008 attack on Bombay, India presented a dossier (lol) to Pakistan. The details are in there.

For now, I will give you this. Daniel Pearl, a WSJ journalist was killed in 2002 by Abdul Rauf Azhar.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1920600056844947603

 

[N00B]

1) What strike package simply "concentrates on targeting"? Every proper strike package should have a counter components for enemy fighter, AD and EW.

An air force attacking ground targets vs an air force entirely focused on them. There will be some difference no matter how well planned. But by the same logic, PAF comprehensively failed to stop India from bombing the camps, which is what it was supposed to do.

2) By all indications, there was no air battle after the first few hours. There were no signs of intensive air battle when Pakistan retaliated. In fact, after the initial flurry there was only one more rumor of a Rafale hit at Sialkot but nothing else.

This is incorrect. Pakistan claimed such. From Guardian -

Lastly, not a single report of a Indian BVR found, fired or encountered during the whole episode. No PAF fighter ever had to "dodge" an Indian missile to prove its mettle.

There is no way to verify these claims.

 

[nimitz123]

Now I just realized that the Indians just using a weapon that can theoretically carry nuclear warhead, striking them at the heart of Pakistan’s capital. This is one of the highest escaltion level without nuclear (maybe only less than ballistic missile). This is making no sense, like they just don’t care about anything else and just try to provoke them and just desperate time calls for desperate measures.

 

[N00B]

What surprised me the most during this small war is Indian air defense. No Indian aircraft has been shot down by them so far.

 

[snake65]

The entire Indian air force was basically rendered useless within hours of its initial strike.

We can tell simply from the PL-15Es recovered in enemy territory (AMRAAMs during Balakot) but a complete and damning lack of any BVR missiles from the Indian side.

Your aircraft can't even find a lock or any solution to fire. That is why you can only brag about your heavy platform, the SU-30MKI, doing nothing but dodging.

Right now the IAF is neutered as an effective force because it cannot fight a BVR battle.

The only thing India had established here is they have no real air cover.

That's a lot of strong statements.

Indian formation and initial aircraft composition suggests a surprise air-surface strike from stand-off range without entering Pakistan airspace. Strike groups definitely did not carry BVR missiles and I wouldn't be surprised that even CAP did not have them, this would be the reason why IAF had to scramble additional planes to the area. Unfortunately for them, it was too late, PAF was not obliged to wait. This would explain why there were no BVR launches from Indian side.

Bad planning on IAF side - definitely. Lack of AEW coverage - criminal. IAF rendered useless, India has no real air cover - be careful, Indians probably were thinking the same.

 

[manqiangrexue]

An air force attacking ground targets vs an air force entirely focused on them. There will be some difference no matter how well planned. But by the same logic, PAF comprehensively failed to stop India from bombing the camps, which is what it was supposed to do.

This is incorrect. Pakistan claimed such. From Guardian -

View attachment 151967

There is no way to verify these claims.

The IAF brought up more than double the number of aircraft that the PAF brought up. By cost, it was probably closer to 10X.

What surprised me the most during this small war is Indian air defense. No Indian aircraft has been shot down by them so far.

Is... that a brag?

 

[N00B]

fight to an even draw with Pakistan

Damn! You too. From 'humiliating defeat' to 'an even draw'. Cool.

CNN says India begged Washington for the ceasefire.

Uh you see, CNN was quoting Pakistani officials. So, yeah, not believable.

So responsible that you are known for your hallmark, "I'm leaning towards believing because it's just my hunch."

Thanks you. You need to come up with better snark than "a completely normal person".

 

[Aegrotare]

Indian formation and initial aircraft composition suggests a surprise air-surface strike from stand-off range without entering Pakistan airspace. Strike groups definitely did not carry BVR missiles and I wouldn't be surprised that even CAP did not have them, this would be the reason why IAF had to scramble additional planes to the area

Thats really the big question, where were the Indian BVR missles? The IAF really did a comical bad job at planing and executing their attack, and not for the first time. The second big question is, why do the Indians always choose the IAF for such mission, they have prooven again and again that they are incompetent. Why not just attack from the start with balistic missles?