The sinking of South Korean Corvette Cheonan

[LesAdieux]

if it was indeed a torpedo, then it must be an ambush, launched within very close range from a mini-sub, it's very shallow water.

 

[Finn McCool]

if it was indeed a torpedo, then it must be an ambush, launched within very close range from a mini-sub, it's very shallow water.

Just because the water is shallow doesn't mean that it must have been fired from close range or that it must have been a mini-sub. Come on.

On the torpedo vs. mine question, I think the damage to the ship, particularly the way it was described in the South Korean newspaper graphic posted earlier, is absolutely classic torpedo damage. It's exactly what a large torpedo does to a ship: a large explosion creates a bubble, pushing the ship up, then sucking the ship's keel violently down then back up again in less than a second, and breaking the ship in two.

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[Spike]

What would be evidence of a mine explosion?

 

[rhino123]

Actually a mine could also create damages similar to that of a torpedo strike as seen in the reference:

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See the Bubble jet effect as explained in the abovementioned reference.

 

[bd popeye]

mods note >>> A coupe of you gents need to knock off the insults etc..you know who you are!!

bd popeye super moderator

 

[Lion]

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SEOUL, South Korea – South Korea accused North Korea on Thursday of firing a torpedo that sank a naval warship in March, killing 46 sailors in the country's worst military disaster since the Korean War.

President Lee Myung-bak vowed "stern action" for the provocation following the release of long-awaited results from a multinational investigation into the incident. North Korea, reacting swiftly, called the results a fabrication and warned that any retaliation would trigger war.

Investigators said evidence overwhelmingly proves North Korea fired a homing torpedo that caused a massive underwater blast that tore the Cheonan into two on March 26. Fifty-eight sailors were rescued from the frigid Yellow Sea waters near the Koreas' maritime border, but 46 perished.

"(We) will take resolute countermeasures against North Korea and make it admit its wrongdoings through strong international cooperation," Lee told Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd in a phone conversation, the presidential office said.

The White House called the sinking an unacceptable "act of aggression" that violates international law and the truce signed in 1953.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, a former South Korean foreign minister, called the investigation results "deeply troubling," his spokesman said in a statement.

China, North Korea's traditional ally, called the sinking of the naval ship "unfortunate" but stopped short of backing Seoul. Vice Foreign Minister Cui Tiankai refused to comment further Thursday other than reiterating long-standing Chinese comments on the need to maintain peace on the Korean peninsula.

South Korean and U.S. officials have said they are considering a variety of options, ranging from U.N. Security Council action to additional U.S. penalties.

North Korea already is chafing from international sanctions tightened last year in the wake of widely condemned nuclear and missile tests.

Pyongyang, meanwhile, continued its steadfast denials of involvement in the sinking and said it would send its own investigators to conduct a probe, while warning that any punishment against the North would spark war.

"The all-out war to be undertaken by us will be a sacred war involving the whole nation, all the people and the whole state," a spokesman for North Korea's powerful National Defense Commission said, according to a report carried by the state-run Korean Central News Agency.

North Korea's Kim Jong Il serves as chairman of the National Defense Commission, a position that makes him leader of the communist nation of 24 million.

The North also warned the South against any provocative acts near the Koreas' borders in the aftermath of the sinking, saying it would react with an "unlimited retaliatory blow, merciless strong physical blow."

Pyongyang, which accused Lee's government of exploiting the disaster for political gain, also urged the U.S. and Japan to "act with discretion."

"The world will clearly see what dear price the group of traitors will have to pay for the clumsy 'conspiratorial farce' and 'charade' concocted to stifle compatriots," KCNA said.

The two Koreas remain locked in a state of war and divided by the world's most heavily armed border because the conflict ended with the signing of a truce, not a peace treaty.

North Korea has waged a slew of attacks against South Korea since the war, including the 1987 downing of a South Korean passenger plane that killed all 115 people on board.

Pyongyang routinely denies the past provocations.

North Korea also disputes the maritime border drawn unilaterally by U.N. forces at the close of the Korean War, and the waters have been the site of several deadly naval clashes since 1999.

Fragments recovered from the waters where the Cheonan went down indicate that a North Korean submarine fired a torpedo, investigators said Thursday.

Pieces recovered at the sinking site "perfectly match" the schematics of the torpedo included in introductory brochures provided to foreign countries by North Korea for export purposes, chief investigator Yoon Duk-young said.

A serial number on a torpedo fragment also was consistent with markings from a North Korean torpedo that South Korea obtained years earlier, Yoon said.

"The evidence points overwhelmingly to the conclusion that the torpedo was fired by a North Korean submarine," he said. "There is no other plausible explanation."

Investigators also confirmed that several small North Korean submarines and a mother ship supporting them left a North Korean naval base two to three days ago before the attack, and returned to port two to three days after the attack.

Other nations' submarines were either in or near their respective home bases at the time of the incident, Yoon said.

The joint civilian-military investigation team included experts from South Korea, the U.S., Britain, Australia and Sweden.

Prepare for war!!!

 

[Neutral Zone]

A full scale war is by no means inevitable but the situation in Korea has now become a lot more dangerous and unpredictable. Previously I've always thought that Kim was a lot smarter than the Western press portray him as but if he has sanctioned this action then he is an erratic leader and a clear threat to regional peace and stability.

Public opinion in SK is going to demand retribution but it is difficult to see what action they could take that wouldn't destabilise things further. The U.S. Has enough on it's plater with Afghanistan and Iran and they don't want Korea to be flaring up. However if NK carries out further provocative actions like the sinking of the Cheonan then domestic pressure in SK may be impossible to resist.

Obviously the key player here is China. If NK is becoming more bellicose and provocative then surely China cannot consider that to be in it's interests. Yes China wants to ensure the survival of the DPRK as a buffer state against SK and Japan but if Kim starts to regularly commit acts of war against his neighbours then that cannot be in China's interests.

 

[optionsss]

Obviously the key player here is China.

China may not want North Korea to collapse, but it is actually SK does not want to start a full scale war. Most of SK's population center is well within the reach of NK artillery. Since NK already got nukes, they might have problem with delivery but at least they can used in the defense. So stop using China as an scapegoat, any sane SK leader will not want to start a full scale war.

Naval warfare have been going on in that region since Korean war, you win some and you will lose some.

 

[rhino123]

My personal opinion was that there will not be a war between SK and NK. Many major powers in that region would not allow it. US will never allow this type of action from SK as long as she is not certain of what China will do.

China on the other hand would not want the war to escalate in her backyard. Because as soon as SK moves, US and Japan will have a good chance of entering the war.

Although NK had artilleries, missiles and stuff that can reach SK general population, but if a war really breaks out, it will not be SK and NK business only... we will be seeing the renactment of Korea War... only that now there will be much more advance weaponries and trained troops involved.

So as long as China and Russia's attitude are not confirmed... SK will not start a war.

However since SK had already announced that it was NK that had sank the ship, actions needed to be taken or SK's government will not be able to answer to his citizens.

The best bet is for UN to tighten the embargoment and sanction. And also to remove all SK aids to NK... thus completely cutting NK out from SK. Other than that, there really is not much options left for SK. Of course SK could also tried limited strikes on NK's ships and naval bases. But that might trigger an all out retaliation.

 

[Neutral Zone]

I'm not scapegoatting China at all, the people responsible for the sinking are the DPRK.

China is key because it is the only power that could possibly persuade the DPRK to adopt a less belligerent attitude. Whether it can or not is a different matter. It does seem like there are some hotheads in the DPRK who are hellbent on creating a provocation for a major war and that is in no one's interests.