PAF should have bought J-10 instead of JF-17?

[Student]

It is a personal opinion but i may be wrong. PAF should have bought the J-10 in greater quantity and should have dumped the not so capable JF-17. PAF buying J-10 in quantity would have bought the serial cost down as well. 120 J-10 would have been a lot better than having 275 JF-17. My point is that you can fight with less swords but you certainly cannont defend with lots of chopsticks. Happy 60 years of progress to china.:china:

 

[Lion]

It is a personal opinion but i may be wrong. PAF should have bought the J-10 in greater quantity and should have dumped the not so capable JF-17. PAF buying J-10 in quantity would have bought the serial cost down as well. 120 J-10 would have been a lot better than having 275 JF-17. My point is that you can fight with less swords but you certainly cannont defend with lots of chopsticks. Happy 60 years of progress to china.:china:

U must take into consideration Pakistan limited defence budget.

J-10 is far more expensive per unit given the bigger and more expensive AL-31F engines. Pakistan AF intend to replace all its A-5, Mirage III with something cheaper price unit. They need to have 250units to do the replacing.

I don't even think PLAAF operate 250 J-10units at the moment.

JF-17 is the best option for them. Plus , AVIC agreed to do the technology transfer which Pakistan is able to learn alot of aircraft manufacturing thru this project and at the same time replace most of its aging air fleet.

It's killing 2 birds with a stone. If Pakistan is able to market successful FC-1 together with AVIC. It may even earn a small fortune to subsidise its JF-17 fleet.

JF-17 is not a bad bird after all. I saw some CCTV video of FC-1 going thru test and real air flight. It has some stunning performance of short and steep take off. Sharp turn and high maneouvre. More or less can give u some info on how good these plane is.

One Pakistan Test pilot even comment JF-17 is as good as F-16A in aerial performance.

 

[vesicles]

I don't doubt that PAF would like to have J-10s. Heck, if given the option, China would definitely like to have some F-22s. But the key question here is whether the country with these advanced weapons want to sell them. Obviously, J-10 is the most advanced fighter that China has. It's hard to imagine that China would allow any other nation, ally or not, to fly its precious bird.

So don't blame PAF for not being able to get J-10s. It's not their fault that China doesn't want to sell. You should blame China for being too "protective"

 

[Student]

I don't doubt that PAF would like to have J-10s. Heck, if given the option, China would definitely want some F-22s. But the key question here is whether the country with these advanced weapons want to sell them. Obviously, J-10 is the most advanced fighter that China has. It's hard to imagine that China would allow any other nation, ally or not, to fly its precious bird.

So don't blame PAF for not being able to get J-10s. You should blame China for being to "protective

Pakistan have already done a deal for the delivery of 36 J-10 by 2014-15. plus when pervaiz musharraf visited china he was shown both JF-17 and J-10 and he also sat in the copit of both of them hope it clear the situation for you.:china:

 

[AssassinsMace]

I don't doubt that PAF would like to have J-10s. Heck, if given the option, China would definitely like to have some F-22s. But the key question here is whether the country with these advanced weapons want to sell them. Obviously, J-10 is the most advanced fighter that China has. It's hard to imagine that China would allow any other nation, ally or not, to fly its precious bird.

So don't blame PAF for not being able to get J-10s. It's not their fault that China doesn't want to sell. You should blame China for being too "protective"

Depending on what you want to believe that's publish on the internet or otherwise, it says the PAF will eventually get J-10s. And what I've read is Pakistani pilots have flown in them. J-10 for export seems to be only a matter of time.

 

[vesicles]

Depending on what you want to believe that's publish on the internet or otherwise, it says the PAF will eventually get J-10s. And what I've read is Pakistani pilots have flown in them. J-10 for export seems to be only a matter of time.

It seems whenever the news about exporting J-10 comes out, it's the PAF that's making the claim. I've never seen any PLA confirmation on these claims. So who knows...

 

[Baibar of Jalat]

It seems whenever the news about exporting J-10 comes out, it's the PAF that's making the claim. I've never seen any PLA confirmation on these claims. So who knows...

Any claims to deny it? Politics is bigger, overrules everything else. Remember PLA is subservent to CCP.

Found this article on China Defence Blog, it is not 100% proof but it added more fuel on the debate.

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China plans to market the Chengdu FC-1/JF-17 and J-10 fighters aggressively as part of its plan to become a major player in the global aerospace industry.

"While AVIC's main job is to manufacture aircraft, the company also fulfils a national agenda by producing military aircraft for China's political allies around the world," says a source close to Chengdu's state-owned parent company. "There are also countries that would like to buy a good fighter, but not at the cost of a Western fighter.

"While China's military aircraft have been exported for many years, this is the first time that there is a concerted effort to properly market them and establish a support network," the source adds.

In the past few months, senior company officials have been identifying the military products that will be given the most attention for the export market. In the fighter segment, the JF-17 and the J-10 are the two most important aircraft, says the source.

"Given that the JF-17 has been in service in China and Pakistan for a number of years and is a mature programme, it is being given first priority," the source adds.

Islamabad, which helped to develop the JF-17, has committed to buying 150 aircraft produced by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. This figure could rise to 300 aircraft to replace the country's air force fleets of Nanchang A-5s, Chengdu F-7s and Dassault Mirage III and Mirage Vs.

The JF-17 will be able to carry a variety of conventional and precision-guided bombs, and air-to-air and air-to-sea missiles from short- to beyond-visual-range. The type is already being marketed to countries in Africa, the Middle East, South America and South-East Asia.

"The J-10 is not ready for export yet, as AVIC is still finalising upgrades for the fighter," the source says. "But there has been interest from several countries."

AVIC is likely to begin exports of the new type - which entered Chinese air force service in early 2007 - after it has finished developing an upgraded J-10B version. Enhancements are to include a modified vertical stabiliser and ventral fins, redesigned engine inlet, a new radar and an infrared search and track sensor.

Pakistan is likely to be the first export customer, having begun negotiations to buy 36 aircraft several years ago. To be designated locally as FC-20s, deliveries are likely to begin from 2014-15.

Beijing could extend loans to purchasing countries and offer local assembly if there are sufficient orders, the source adds.

 

[vesicles]

The J-10 is not ready for export yet, as AVIC is still finalising upgrades for the fighter," the source says. "But there has been interest from several countries."

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As I suggested, people want to buy, but seller not interested in selling.

AVIC is likely to begin exports of the new type - which entered Chinese air force service in early 2007 - after it has finished developing an upgraded J-10B version. Enhancements are to include a modified vertical stabiliser and ventral fins, redesigned engine inlet, a new radar and an infrared search and track sensor.

As suggested in the article, China will only sell J-10A once PLA gets something better (J-10B in this case) and J-10A is no longer the best they got. This also seems to agree with my original rational, which is China will not sell their best fighter to others. Note that my original argument was not J-10-specific, but about whether a nation would allow another nation to have possession of their best weapon (that's why I also gave the example of China wanting F-22).

 

[Delbert]

As I suggested, people want to buy, but seller not interested in selling.

Was the J-10 really that cutting edge plane? For China to keep it on its own? If I am not mistaken, they had already signed a deal with Pakistan and is going to sell it.

 

[vesicles]

Was the J-10 really that cutting edge plane? For China to keep it on its own? If I am not mistaken, they had already signed a deal with Pakistan and is going to sell it.

What else do you in mind? J-10B? It's still in the testing stage, definitely not fielded yet. Based on what I understand, J-10A is the top-of-line fighter in service with PLAAF and the pride of Chinese aviation industry NOW. And according to the article quoted above, it is NOT for sell.