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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
I think people need to think about the other side of the equation. Shanghai is more of an international city, so yes there is a tendency to be more globalist and therefore more "pro-Western."

However, it also acts as an ideal gateway city for foreigners to travel to and adjust to living, doing business, and seeing the country for the first time. Chongqing or Beijing tends to be "more Chinese" and has more of a learning curve for backpackers or businessmen to than HK or Shanghai.
Guess it's kind of like how New York, Seattle and LA is seen as more familiar to global travelers than "all American" cities like Birmingham, Kansas City or Des Moines.
 

coolgod

Brigadier
Registered Member

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
First of all, I want to point out that it is hugely disrespectful to victims of actual concentration camps to characterize quarantine hospitals as concentration camps. While I believe that there was definitely some room for improvement in the implementation of the policy, I believe the policy was based on sound premises and foundations. It's easy to look back now and criticize aspects of the policy, but hindsight is 20/20. I think everybody here would agree that the government made the right decision to implement lockdown in response to the original strain of the virus. And when Omicron initially emerged, it was unknown as to exactly what degree the new strain differed from the original strain in terms of mortality and infectiousness. So I believe that an initial effort to contain the new variant until more conclusive data can be gathered and for a greater proportion of the population to become vaccinated was a sound decision. To otherwise would be gambling with the lives of 1.4 billion people. From the reopening, we can see how fast the virus could spread if left unchecked, and if Omicron had the same lethality as the original strain and if vaccination rates had not been as high, tens of millions of fatalities would have occurred. You mention abuses of power and profiteering, but it would be unfair to blame the government for the actions of individuals that happen to be shitty human beings. Shitty people doing shitty things is an unfortunate reality that occurs throughout the world. The government did launch a massive corruption investigation last year aimed at the healthcare industry to hold accountable those involved in corruption at the institutional level during the pandemic. And while I myself was outraged when hearing some of the incidents which have occurred in Shanghai, these were for the most part isolated incidents and did not reflect the experience of the overwhelming majority of Shanghai residents. From the countless friends and family members that I spoke with that were living in Shanghai at the time, I did not hear of a single complaint of someone not having adequate food. At worst, food became a little more expensive and the vegetables were not as fresh. I'm just glad they didn't go through the experience of many of my friends and colleagues in New York of having to go out and try to obtain groceries and toilet paper in the early days of the pandemic in New York, where the sound of ambulances continued 24/7 and when you would see multiple ambulances parked at each block, all the while hoping that your limited and diminishing stock of masks would not run out.
I volunteer liberals to have the freedom to test early exposure to pathogens, and their experimental antidotes, in sealed and monitored labs. We pay each subject $45.50 per hour too, with food, drink and accommodation provided.
 

ChongqingHotPot92

Junior Member
Registered Member
First of all, I want to point out that it is hugely disrespectful to victims of actual concentration camps to characterize quarantine hospitals as concentration camps. While I believe that there was definitely some room for improvement in the implementation of the policy, I believe the policy was based on sound premises and foundations. It's easy to look back now and criticize aspects of the policy, but hindsight is 20/20. I think everybody here would agree that the government made the right decision to implement lockdown in response to the original strain of the virus. And when Omicron initially emerged, it was unknown as to exactly what degree the new strain differed from the original strain in terms of mortality and infectiousness. So I believe that an initial effort to contain the new variant until more conclusive data can be gathered and for a greater proportion of the population to become vaccinated was a sound decision. To otherwise would be gambling with the lives of 1.4 billion people. From the reopening, we can see how fast the virus could spread if left unchecked, and if Omicron had the same lethality as the original strain and if vaccination rates had not been as high, tens of millions of fatalities would have occurred. You mention abuses of power and profiteering, but it would be unfair to blame the government for the actions of individuals that happen to be shitty human beings. Shitty people doing shitty things is an unfortunate reality that occurs throughout the world. The government did launch a massive corruption investigation last year aimed at the healthcare industry to hold accountable those involved in corruption at the institutional level during the pandemic. And while I myself was outraged when hearing some of the incidents which have occurred in Shanghai, these were for the most part isolated incidents and did not reflect the experience of the overwhelming majority of Shanghai residents. From the countless friends and family members that I spoke with that were living in Shanghai at the time, I did not hear of a single complaint of someone not having adequate food. At worst, food became a little more expensive and the vegetables were not as fresh. I'm just glad they didn't go through the experience of many of my friends and colleagues in New York of having to go out and try to obtain groceries and toilet paper in the early days of the pandemic in New York, where the sound of ambulances continued 24/7 and when you would see multiple ambulances parked at each block, all the while hoping that your limited and diminishing stock of masks would not run out.
For your account of the event, I have two rebuttals. First, by April-May 2022, it was clear that the Shanghai lockdown was doing more harm than good, whilst the Omicron was far less lethal than it was thought to be. So why did Xi wait until the white paper movement uprising in November to give order to life the lockdowns throughout China? There has to be some connection to Xi’s hope for a smooth transition to his third term in October. But he grossly miscalculated by assuming that people would simply allow themselves to be locked up like pigs in a slaughterhouse. Thus, he did not get his smooth transition and lost 面子。By November, however, it was too late. China’s economy had been thoroughly gutted, and youth unemployment rate skyrocketed. That’s why China never had a post-pandemic boom. Both employers and employees lost confidence, so they began to 躺平 and 摆烂. That’s when the “degenerate” elites and their western allies began to blast propaganda saying that there are no hopes in China’s economy, so it is time to move your corrupt assets out. If you are not rich, you were told to go through the U.S.-Mexico border via drug lords who would “protect” you if you pay them. The rising interest rates in the U.S. also facilitated this 润 campaign, but the main cause is still the pessimism surrounding the great 2022 lockdown. His public manhandling of Hu Jintao (a separate issue) further eroded his image. Secondly, it is true that there are shitty human beings as you mentioned everywhere. But when these shitty human beings were given the power to carry out certain authorities by force without accountability, they REALLY enjoyed exercising their newly given power. That’s was the problem of the CPC’s bureaucracy, where folks were only accountable to those above them, not folks who they govern. When when their boss give them the power to forcefully take things away from people and evict people from their apartment to quarantine camps, these shitty carry them out zealously because they found self values in abusing others under the cover of legitimate authority. It was same thing that led to the high death rate of the Great Leap Forward, the lower-tier red guards engaging in random massacres and even cannibalism during the Cultural Revolution, and those 大白 during the great 2022 lockdowns. These were classic examples of newly given authority without accountability and effective scrutiny (on whether such exercise of authority broke other PRC and local laws).
 
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Chevalier

Captain
Registered Member
Neoliberalism believes any country is interchangeable regardless of cultural, ability, environment etc differences.

We had Japan, then Korea, then Taiwan and then China. So surely we can now have then India right?

Can you see one country seems odd one out in the list and why this assumption doesn't really work?

They seemed to missed out all the hyped countries that got stuck in the middle income trap like South America for some reason.
The same people who believe neoliberalism applies to any country also believes in the End of History with the same sort of religious zealotry as a medieval crusader/jihadist. They later evolved into believing that gender is just a social construct and now we have autogynophiles harassing women in female change rooms and stealing women's trophies and medals in sports.

The level of Extreme retardation coming from that Taiwanese clown is next level. Comparing Taiwan to Israel's current situation.
It's geared towards a particular audience: the donor class who are heavily pro israel and who are the real kingmakers of american politics: the zionist lobby group.
 

MortyandRick

Senior Member
Registered Member
By November, however, it was too late. China’s economy had been thoroughly gutted, and youth unemployment rate skyrocketed. That’s why China never had a post-pandemic boom.
False. Western counties had a post pandemic book because they printed money like crazy with monetary stimulus. China never did hence why their inflation is controlled unlike the US.

I bet if China did provide stimulus and inflation increases, I bet you'd still be back here complaining.
His public manhandling of Hu Jintao (a separate issue) further eroded his image.
Again lies. Hu Jintao was sick bud. There was video of him not doing well before leaving. Every Chinese person knows. You should know too or otherwise you are a Falungong propagandist ? Which would actually make a lot of sense with your posts.
That’s was the problem of the CPC’s bureaucracy, where folks were only accountable to those above them, not folks who they govern.
Your ramblings are not supported by reality and facts.

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In contrast to the US democracy

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Looks like china is much more responsive to their citizens then the US.

Seriously you are a troll and will be treated as one.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
For your account of the event, I have two rebuttals. First, by April-May 2022, it was clear that the Shanghai lockdown was doing more harm than good, whilst the Omicron was far less lethal than it was thought to be. So why did Xi wait until the white paper movement uprising in November to give order to life the lockdowns throughout China? There has to be some connection to Xi’s hope for a smooth transition to his third term in October. But he grossly miscalculated by assuming that people would simply allow themselves to be locked up like pigs in a slaughterhouse. Thus, he did not get his smooth transition and lost 面子。By November, however, it was too late. China’s economy had been thoroughly gutted, and youth unemployment rate skyrocketed. That’s why China never had a post-pandemic boom. Both employers and employees lost confidence, so they began to 躺平 and 摆烂. That’s when the “degenerate” elites and their western allies began to blast propaganda saying that there are no hopes in China’s economy, so it is time to move your corrupt assets out. If you are not rich, you were told to go through the U.S.-Mexico border via drug lords who would “protect” you if you pay them. The rising interest rates in the U.S. also facilitated this 润 campaign, but the main cause is still the pessimism surrounding the great 2022 lockdown. His public manhandling of Hu Jintao (a separate issue) further eroded his image. Secondly, it is true that there are shitty human beings as you mentioned everywhere. But when these shitty human beings were given the power to carry out certain authorities by force without accountability, they REALLY enjoyed exercising their newly given power. That’s was the problem of the CPC’s bureaucracy, where folks were only
This POST RIGHT HERE IS A READ AND LISTS of all the anti-China talking points I came across on just about every western social media landscape back in 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023.

The meat and potatoes of your criticism against not just the government BUT THE VERY SYSTEM ITSELF that enabled China’s current standing and footing both domestically and internationally IS VERY MUCH OFFENSIVE AND BEYOND REVOLTING to every SANE AND OBJECTIVE CHINESE PERSON not just in China but around the world.

I am not even going to dignify YOUR CHILD LIKE TANTRUM/WHINING with a decent response because YOU DESERVE NOTHING BUT SCORN.
 
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