The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

Scratch

Captain
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

Just to keep this updated. The programm seems to have earned some positive responses. This news is actually better then the headline implies. Boeing is exploring ways to implement potential customer wishes into the design.

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F-15 Silent Eagle Flight-test Dates Slip

Jun 24, 2009
By Amy Butler and Graham Warwick


Boeing is slipping the first flight-test for the F-15 Silent Eagle prototype about six months to allow time to add inputs over features desired by interested international customers.

First flight for a preproduction version of the Silent Eagle was slated for the first quarter of 2010 as of March, when the company unveiled the concept at its St. Louis facility (Aerospace DAILY, March 18, June 11). The early flight-tests were to focus on operation of the conformal fuel tanks, which are being redesigned to house weapons internally.

Other features designed to reduce the radar cross section, such as stealthy coatings for the leading edges and canted tail fins, would be flight-tested later. And, the new-build Silent Eagle was to include a digital electronic warfare system and digital fly-by-wire controls.

But the flight-test has now slipped to the third quarter of 2010. Boeing included the new flight date in an announcement at last week’s Paris Air Show as it reaffirmed the company’s commitment to the development project.

“We’ve identified some interest from some potential international co-development partners. These are opportunities we wanted to allow proper time to consider, and where appropriate integrate into the program,” Boeing officials said June 23 when asked to clarify the earlier statement.

The company embarked on the effort as an internal research and development project, but Boeing Military Aircraft President Chris Chadwick said before the air show that he intended to explore potential cooperative development funding options in Paris with other countries.

Israel, which already operates F-15s, has expressed interest. Others likely to be interested include Japan, Singapore, South Korea and Saudi Arabia. The U.S. Air Force also could be a candidate, although the service maintains its official interest in focusing procurement on fifth-generation F-35s and F-22s, both led by Lockheed Martin.

Boeing’s discussions with potential overseas customers seem to have prompted some changes to the program’s focus and to the design of the Silent Eagle’s components. At a press briefing before the show, Brad Jones, F-15 future fighters program manager, said Boeing was conducting trade studies on the conformal bays, including how to actuate the doors and launch the weapons. “We’re looking at electric, hydraulic, pneumatic and a combination,” he said. “It’s a question of how fast you get the missiles out.” Prior to unveiling the project, Boeing’s design focused on using all-electrical actuators.

Potential international customers also have expressed interest in what other payloads — a side-looking radar or broadband electronic jammer, for example — could be suitable for carriage in the conformal fuel tank bay.

Jones said in March that Boeing was open to co-production of the conformal fuel tanks, which would carry weapons internally, with customer nations. Israel, for example, already produces conformal fuel tanks in its 10 configuration. A U.S. 3 tank configuration, made by Boeing and developed specifically for the F-15C/D models, is eyed for the flight-tests of the Silent Eagle.
 

Ambivalent

Junior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

"We can't export the F-22, so we'll give you a F-15 in new paint job instead" -- Boeing

A lot of money and time was invested into the F-15 platform, and few nations are equipped with anything comparable or better. I won't blame Boeing from trying to milk as much as they can out of it before it's rendered obsolete by stealth fighters.

Can anyone think of another 4th gen fighter with more air to air victories than the F-15?

There are 104 claimed air to air kills attributed to the F-15. Of course this is nothing compared to the number of kills attributed to some WWII fighters. I cannot find a website that has air to air kill statistics for modern combat jets.
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

There are 104 claimed air to air kills attributed to the F-15. Of course this is nothing compared to the number of kills attributed to some WWII fighters. I cannot find a website that has air to air kill statistics for modern combat jets.
And out of those kills which were evenly matched with satisfactory trained fighters and aircrafts. Most were Cold War era Mig. I dont like numbers.
 

zraver

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

And out of those kills which were evenly matched with satisfactory trained fighters and aircrafts. Most were Cold War era Mig. I dont like numbers.

Most were vs Soviet trained Syrians in mid- to late Cold War platforms like the Mig 21 and 25. Don't forget that the F-15 is a mid cold war platform itself.

USAF kills vs modern aircraft

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums

The Iraqi pilots were in their nations best platform and presumably combat vets who had survived the Iran-Iraq war. The Serbian pilots were assumedly trained to Warsaw pact standards. The Mig 23 and Mig 25 only entered service about 5 years prior to the Eagle and the Mirage F1EQ's the Iraqi's had were acquired in the 80's and scored several kills vs a US made contemporary of the Eagle the F-14.

One problem similar time framed palnes had vs the F-15 is none were built to do what the Eagle did- dominate the skies through a combination of superior pilots, superior platform, superior weapons and superior radar. It would not be until the SU-27 emerged that a contender for best air dominance fighter arrived. But early Su-27's sucked compared to the eagle and it was not until later Su-27 models and the Su-30 that a serious challenge emerged, but by then the F-22 was well under development.

The F-15 should not be judged by the quality of its foes as it was designed specifically to take on anything else in the air and win so that a smaller NATO air force could rule the skies and this win WWIII. The F-15's win record is simply a reflection of its design goals.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

Does anyone know if the Pylons on the wings are being kept? I read in one report that it was going to be dropped, but that would seriously hurt its carrying capacity, that and that if the Raptor are having its wing pylons, I can't see how the Eagle can't.
 

cmb=1968

Junior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

Does anyone know if the Pylons on the wings are being kept? I read in one report that it was going to be dropped, but that would seriously hurt its carrying capacity, that and that if the Raptor are having its wing pylons, I can't see how the Eagle can't.

I think when they are going for the at hock stealth they remove the pylons but the internal hard point were the pylon is mounted will remain. From what I have read about the Silent Eagle it is supposed to be able to refit the Conventional conformal fuel tank; that has all those Hard points for bombs plus its wing stations.

The F-22 has a hard point that allows the mounting of external stores usually a drop tank which it uses for long range missions. But when it needs stealth more than range in goes with out the pylon like the Silent Eagle.
 

Vlad Plasmius

Junior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

This actually could serve as a good way to make up for the cuts being made to the F-35 and F-22. Though, I'm concerned Dems may use it as a way of cutting those further.
 

challenge

Banned Idiot
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

Most were vs Soviet trained Syrians in mid- to late Cold War platforms like the Mig 21 and 25. Don't forget that the F-15 is a mid cold war platform itself.

USAF kills vs modern aircraft

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums

The Iraqi pilots were in their nations best platform and presumably combat vets who had survived the Iran-Iraq war. The Serbian pilots were assumedly trained to Warsaw pact standards. The Mig 23 and Mig 25 only entered service about 5 years prior to the Eagle and the Mirage F1EQ's the Iraqi's had were acquired in the 80's and scored several kills vs a US made contemporary of the Eagle the F-14.

One problem similar time framed palnes had vs the F-15 is none were built to do what the Eagle did- dominate the skies through a combination of superior pilots, superior platform, superior weapons and superior radar. It would not be until the SU-27 emerged that a contender for best air dominance fighter arrived. But early Su-27's sucked compared to the eagle and it was not until later Su-27 models and the Su-30 that a serious challenge emerged, but by then the F-22 was well under development.

The F-15 should not be judged by the quality of its foes as it was designed specifically to take on anything else in the air and win so that a smaller NATO air force could rule the skies and this win WWIII. The F-15's win record is simply a reflection of its design goals.

It was not fair fight,you ignore the fact,that most of air to air killed was due to aerial coverage from AWACS.let us assume, the USAF flying the MIG-29 and the iraqi flying F-15E the out come may be different. remember most of front line iraqi pilot are 9 year experience (and lesson) against US trained iranian pilots.
 

HKSDU

Junior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

Most were vs Soviet trained Syrians in mid- to late Cold War platforms like the Mig 21 and 25. Don't forget that the F-15 is a mid cold war platform itself.

USAF kills vs modern aircraft

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums

The Iraqi pilots were in their nations best platform and presumably combat vets who had survived the Iran-Iraq war. The Serbian pilots were assumedly trained to Warsaw pact standards. The Mig 23 and Mig 25 only entered service about 5 years prior to the Eagle and the Mirage F1EQ's the Iraqi's had were acquired in the 80's and scored several kills vs a US made contemporary of the Eagle the F-14.

One problem similar time framed palnes had vs the F-15 is none were built to do what the Eagle did- dominate the skies through a combination of superior pilots, superior platform, superior weapons and superior radar. It would not be until the SU-27 emerged that a contender for best air dominance fighter arrived. But early Su-27's sucked compared to the eagle and it was not until later Su-27 models and the Su-30 that a serious challenge emerged, but by then the F-22 was well under development.

The F-15 should not be judged by the quality of its foes as it was designed specifically to take on anything else in the air and win so that a smaller NATO air force could rule the skies and this win WWIII. The F-15's win record is simply a reflection of its design goals.
Exactly my point I dont like numbers when it comes to this kill history. And basically you said most of things I said anyway so no need to repeat.
 

Pointblank

Senior Member
Re: Boeing's answer to the 4.5 gen aircraft market

It was not fair fight,you ignore the fact,that most of air to air killed was due to aerial coverage from AWACS.let us assume, the USAF flying the MIG-29 and the iraqi flying F-15E the out come may be different. remember most of front line iraqi pilot are 9 year experience (and lesson) against US trained iranian pilots.

The Iraqi's and the Serb's had ground control to guide them into place. Remember that they were often flying over their own territory where ground based radar would be of assistance.
 
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