France Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
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Jura The idiot
General
Aug 1, 2017
Secret study explores anti-missile warship as Franco-Italian STX dispute lingers: source
14 hours ago
and FREDA, huh?
Secret study explores anti-missile warship as Franco-Italian STX dispute lingers: source
14 hours ago
I know FORBIN will love this one 
France's President Macron is photographed being dropped from a helicopter into a moving nuclear submarine Le Terrible
France's President Macron is photographed being dropped from a helicopter into a moving nuclear submarine Le Terrible
Jura The idiot
General
Jul 5, 2017I know FORBIN will love this one
France's President Macron is photographed being dropped from a helicopter into a moving nuclear submarine Le Terrible
View attachment 42044
heck at first I saw it in Russian Internet, thought it's fake, but it's France:
Visite aux sous-mariniers du SNLE "Le Terrible".
Président de la République française.
SweetI know FORBIN will love this one
France's President Macron is photographed being dropped from a helicopter into a moving nuclear submarine Le Terrible
View attachment 42044
Hull to be few detectable in fragile fiberglass
French Navy minehunters transported back from Persian Gulf deployment
After they concluded a six-month deployment in the Persian Gulf, two French Navy minehunters were loaded onto a heavy lift vessel and transported back to France.
French Navy minehunters transported back from Persian Gulf deployment
After they concluded a six-month deployment in the Persian Gulf, two French Navy minehunters were loaded onto a heavy lift vessel and transported back to France.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Wow now that's heavy lift
Jura The idiot
General
Thursday at 11:24 AM
16 septembre 2017
FREMM DAMB ?
I'll be posting the google translation as I read it
"According to Defense News, Bruno Le Maire, Minister of the Economy, would include in the Franco-Italian naval negotiations the modernization of the PAAMS system. The French FREMM 7 and 8 and the FREMM 9 and 10 Italian would then benefit, under this hypothesis, a change of substance as regards their operational capacities and would no longer be FREMM ASM with reinforced air defense capabilities. A longer-term overhaul would be planned for the four Horizon frigates.
At the beginning of 2004, the first two Horizon frigates to replace the Suffren (1967 - 2001) and Duquesne (1970 - 2007) were valued at 2.6 billion euros (2004) float studies and those of the PAAMS program. The cost of machining the third frigate without the PAAMS (neither radars nor Aster missiles) and the cost of studies was given at 600 million euros. "The manufacture of two PAAMS systems, two long range radars and 120 Aster 30 [represents] a total cost of 650.3 million euros." (2003) Half of this sum added to the cost of a "bare" frigate is equal to 925 million euros.
These frigates appear to be far too expensive in comparison with the FMMs that became FREMM. The initial estimate of € 280 million excluding taxes for a FREMM crew of 94 men without the DETAVIA (against 193 on a Horizon) is based on precise financial and economic conditions (target of 17 frigates, high production rate : one vessel every seven months). That is why Horizons 3 and 4 are abandoned in November 2005, even before the new white paper (2007 - 2008) was drafted. They are preferred to extend the number of FMM / FREMM to 19 units by adding two "FREDA" (FREMM de DA).
The successful financial operation projected in 2005 becomes profoundly unfortunate in 2016. In 2013, the cost of studies for FREDA is estimated at 160 million euros by Patrick Boissier, CEO of DCNS. In 2016, the envelope of commitment appropriations allocated to the "FREMM-FREDA" amounts to 2017.77 million euros (Attachment Defense to the Draft Finance Law (PLF) 2017, p.430). For the years 2016 to 2019, the average expenditure on payment appropriations amounts to EUR 300 million (EUR 1148.63 million), of which EUR 869.14 for the years after 2019.
In the meantime, Jean-Yves Le Drian, Minister of Defense of François Hollande, announced in 2015 that the target of the FREMM program was once again reduced to only 8 units (19 units in 2005, 11 in 2008) for an unchanged financial volume (7 to 8 billion euros). The FREDAs are saved but their substance is reworked. Indeed, the minister evoked a "FREMM with the reinforced Air Defense capacities". This is not exactly the same as an FREMM of DA fully oriented towards this mission of struggle in an environment by its nautical and operational qualities. In the end, it is necessary to understand that instead of the FREDA, these DM FREMMs will be no less than a FREMM ASM but also not a FREMM of DA. They will do better than the first thanks to a Herakles radar with increased power.
In brackets, as chance does well, Italy notifies its FREMM 9 and 10 in 2015 and announces in 2016 that they will see their air defense capacities reinforced. Pure speculation, there may already be discussions between Italians and French on what it was possible to do from the FREMM to obtain a true air defense frigate and if its missions could be extended to the DAMB of theater (ATBM).
The Navy then stresses, whenever the subject of the FREMM 7 and 8 is evoked, that it is "FREMM de DA". One of the acceptances of this semantic choice that has become a totem is that WMU intends to convey the following message: we expressed the need in 1997 for a four-flying air defense format, a format fully tested by an even older experiment. This request is partially completed with the two Horizon frigates. But the format will not be achieved with the two DM FREMMs. As a precaution taken for the future, the strategic option chosen is the work on the issue of anti-ballistic missiles."
now found what a blogger had to say
16 septembre 2017
FREMM DAMB ?
I'll be posting the google translation as I read it
:
"According to Defense News, Bruno Le Maire, Minister of the Economy, would include in the Franco-Italian naval negotiations the modernization of the PAAMS system. The French FREMM 7 and 8 and the FREMM 9 and 10 Italian would then benefit, under this hypothesis, a change of substance as regards their operational capacities and would no longer be FREMM ASM with reinforced air defense capabilities. A longer-term overhaul would be planned for the four Horizon frigates.
At the beginning of 2004, the first two Horizon frigates to replace the Suffren (1967 - 2001) and Duquesne (1970 - 2007) were valued at 2.6 billion euros (2004) float studies and those of the PAAMS program. The cost of machining the third frigate without the PAAMS (neither radars nor Aster missiles) and the cost of studies was given at 600 million euros. "The manufacture of two PAAMS systems, two long range radars and 120 Aster 30 [represents] a total cost of 650.3 million euros." (2003) Half of this sum added to the cost of a "bare" frigate is equal to 925 million euros.
These frigates appear to be far too expensive in comparison with the FMMs that became FREMM. The initial estimate of € 280 million excluding taxes for a FREMM crew of 94 men without the DETAVIA (against 193 on a Horizon) is based on precise financial and economic conditions (target of 17 frigates, high production rate : one vessel every seven months). That is why Horizons 3 and 4 are abandoned in November 2005, even before the new white paper (2007 - 2008) was drafted. They are preferred to extend the number of FMM / FREMM to 19 units by adding two "FREDA" (FREMM de DA).
The successful financial operation projected in 2005 becomes profoundly unfortunate in 2016. In 2013, the cost of studies for FREDA is estimated at 160 million euros by Patrick Boissier, CEO of DCNS. In 2016, the envelope of commitment appropriations allocated to the "FREMM-FREDA" amounts to 2017.77 million euros (Attachment Defense to the Draft Finance Law (PLF) 2017, p.430). For the years 2016 to 2019, the average expenditure on payment appropriations amounts to EUR 300 million (EUR 1148.63 million), of which EUR 869.14 for the years after 2019.
In the meantime, Jean-Yves Le Drian, Minister of Defense of François Hollande, announced in 2015 that the target of the FREMM program was once again reduced to only 8 units (19 units in 2005, 11 in 2008) for an unchanged financial volume (7 to 8 billion euros). The FREDAs are saved but their substance is reworked. Indeed, the minister evoked a "FREMM with the reinforced Air Defense capacities". This is not exactly the same as an FREMM of DA fully oriented towards this mission of struggle in an environment by its nautical and operational qualities. In the end, it is necessary to understand that instead of the FREDA, these DM FREMMs will be no less than a FREMM ASM but also not a FREMM of DA. They will do better than the first thanks to a Herakles radar with increased power.
In brackets, as chance does well, Italy notifies its FREMM 9 and 10 in 2015 and announces in 2016 that they will see their air defense capacities reinforced. Pure speculation, there may already be discussions between Italians and French on what it was possible to do from the FREMM to obtain a true air defense frigate and if its missions could be extended to the DAMB of theater (ATBM).
The Navy then stresses, whenever the subject of the FREMM 7 and 8 is evoked, that it is "FREMM de DA". One of the acceptances of this semantic choice that has become a totem is that WMU intends to convey the following message: we expressed the need in 1997 for a four-flying air defense format, a format fully tested by an even older experiment. This request is partially completed with the two Horizon frigates. But the format will not be achieved with the two DM FREMMs. As a precaution taken for the future, the strategic option chosen is the work on the issue of anti-ballistic missiles."
Jura The idiot
General
continuation of the above post ():
This strategic opportunity to reach the format of four DA frigates through the DAMB is very small. The senators proposed four options while justifying that nothing to do with the American ABM was not seriously considerable given the credibility of the French deterrent. The first level of ambition proposed aims to develop the advanced warning tricolor while centralizing the expertise around the equivalent of the Missile Defense Center British. At the first level, the second proposed to launch a PEA for an external interceptor (the Exoduard of EADS Astrium). Finally, the third level of ambition called for the development of interception means in the high endo-atmospheric layers (MBDA's Aster Block II) and outer space (Exoguard) with associated radars (GS1000 for the Aster B2 radar band X for the Exoguard). It was only this last option, the most ambitious, that required two new frigates integrating one or the other, or even together, of the Aster Block 2 and Exoguard. The senators then advanced 2 billion euros for each of these three ensembles (Aster B2, Exoguard and two DAMB frigates).
However, the rapporteurs' recommendations focused on a mix of the three levels of ambition, as early warning and national coordination needed to be strongly reinforced by new means and an ad hoc C2 program. If it were recommended to develop the Aster B2, it was in the perspective of integrating it with the SAMP / T Mamba systems and the Horizon and FREDA frigates (2011, DA FREMM only in 2015). The modernization of the PAAMS system for € 200 million towards a DAMB capacity is minimal since it involved copying Dutch decisions to an early warning capability through the development of space surveillance capacities Long-range radars S1850 (SMART-L) of the LCF frigates. This estimate does not seem sufficiently important nor to understand the integration of the Aster Block 1 NT and still less of the Aster Block 2.
Aster Block 2 is not integrated into the programming, but the Aster Block 1 NT is used to increase the spectrum of threats processed from the SRBM to the first MRBM. Italy joins the modernization of the Aster missiles in June 2015. Future ammunition should arrive in the Air Force at the beginning of the year 2023 and on the frigates of the Horizon program thereafter. But it remains the question of the modernization work to be carried out on the radars of these, that of C2 ..."
"The Senate, by the voice of MM. Jacques GAUTIER, Xavier PINTAT and Daniel REINER ("Ballistic missile defense: military shield or strategic challenge?", Information Report No. 733 (2010-2011), drawn up on behalf of the Committee on Foreign Affairs and Defense, deposited on July 6, 2011) cleared all possibilities so that France could respond to the US ABM powerfully put on the NATO agenda by the presidencies Bush (2000 - 2008) and Obama (2008 - 2016). At the time of the renewal of the US strategic offer under the EPAA with a focus on the Iranian threat, the rapporteurs present all that can be done for France since the early warning until a multi-layer shield (from the low endo-atmospheric to the outer) and its junction with NATO's ALTB® program and its annexes.
This strategic opportunity to reach the format of four DA frigates through the DAMB is very small. The senators proposed four options while justifying that nothing to do with the American ABM was not seriously considerable given the credibility of the French deterrent. The first level of ambition proposed aims to develop the advanced warning tricolor while centralizing the expertise around the equivalent of the Missile Defense Center British. At the first level, the second proposed to launch a PEA for an external interceptor (the Exoduard of EADS Astrium). Finally, the third level of ambition called for the development of interception means in the high endo-atmospheric layers (MBDA's Aster Block II) and outer space (Exoguard) with associated radars (GS1000 for the Aster B2 radar band X for the Exoguard). It was only this last option, the most ambitious, that required two new frigates integrating one or the other, or even together, of the Aster Block 2 and Exoguard. The senators then advanced 2 billion euros for each of these three ensembles (Aster B2, Exoguard and two DAMB frigates).
However, the rapporteurs' recommendations focused on a mix of the three levels of ambition, as early warning and national coordination needed to be strongly reinforced by new means and an ad hoc C2 program. If it were recommended to develop the Aster B2, it was in the perspective of integrating it with the SAMP / T Mamba systems and the Horizon and FREDA frigates (2011, DA FREMM only in 2015). The modernization of the PAAMS system for € 200 million towards a DAMB capacity is minimal since it involved copying Dutch decisions to an early warning capability through the development of space surveillance capacities Long-range radars S1850 (SMART-L) of the LCF frigates. This estimate does not seem sufficiently important nor to understand the integration of the Aster Block 1 NT and still less of the Aster Block 2.
Aster Block 2 is not integrated into the programming, but the Aster Block 1 NT is used to increase the spectrum of threats processed from the SRBM to the first MRBM. Italy joins the modernization of the Aster missiles in June 2015. Future ammunition should arrive in the Air Force at the beginning of the year 2023 and on the frigates of the Horizon program thereafter. But it remains the question of the modernization work to be carried out on the radars of these, that of C2 ..."