F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

Why the current grounding of 15 F-35s is not as big a deal as some in the news media and detractors want you to believe:

...
... Bogdan: F-35 Coolant Line Fix Coming in Weeks
The 15 operational F-35A joint strike fighters grounded by a recent fuel line issue will likely be fixed and able to fly again by the end of the year, the program’s director said today.

However, the program office is still assessing how long it will take for a group of 42 jets, in various stages of production, to be repaired — among them the first two Israeli F-35A models, scheduled for delivery in December.

Lt. Gen. Chris Bogdan, the head of the F-35 Joint Program Office, said at the Air Force Association's annual conference that contractor Lockheed Martin is preparing to test a potential fix on a ground-test aircraft next week. If that fix works, Lockheed will send a set of eight teams out to the field the following week to start repairing the jets.

Thirteen F-35A models used by the US Air Force, as well as two for the Norwegian Air Force, were grounded last week due to the coolant line issue. The design of the plane has the coolant lines traveling through where fuel is stored, although only on the outer tip of the wing. The insulation placed around that coolant line to keep it from being affected by the warm fuel was found to be decomposing into the fuel.

The issue was limited to the A models and does not impact the Marine Corps’ F-35B model or the Navy’s F-35C models.

The solution involves cutting holes in the wings of the jets and removing the bad insulation, as well as cleaning out the potential damage from those pieces floating around. Bogdan downplayed the challenge of cutting into the wing despite the stealthy coating and composite design of the plane, saying there are a number of access panels near the entry point that can also be used.

The Pentagon is working with the supplier to correct the issue, and plans to continue using the supplier in the future because of the number of jets expected to come online in the coming years. And Lockheed will be covering the costs, something Bogdan emphasized to reporters.

“To Lockheed’s credit — write this down, this is important — to Lockheed’s credit, at the highest levels of the corporation, they have committed to doing the right thing, and the definition of doing the right thing is they will pay for all of the engineering and all of the modification for all 52 airplane,” Bogdan said.

The general also hit at those who would characterize the insulation issue as part of the long history of issues that have cropped up with the joint strike fighter, saying this was “not a technical issue, it is not a design issue. It is a quality escape from a supplier that supplied us with installation.”

International Production Impact

In addition to the operational jets, there are 42 production models which had the flawed lines installed. While getting the operational jets up and flying again is the priority, the JPO plans to start working on those repairs as quickly as possible.

Jets for Italy, Japan, Norway and. perhaps most critically, Israeli planes — including the first two F-35As that the Israeli government expects to have delivered to them in December — are affected.

Those two Israeli jets are the priority fix among the production models, Bogdan said, adding that the JPO still expects to deliver those planes on time. However, he could not give a timeline for when the production models would e fixed, in part because the planes are in various states of assembly.

“Some of them just had their wings put on. Some of them, the wings aren’t even on there yet. So the procedure for fixing those airplanes runs the gauntlet from virtually very little to having to cut holes in wings,” Bogdan said. “So we’ll take care of fielded airplanes first, and then the production airplanes.”

Given that the Israeli jets are so close to being handed over, it is likely they will require the more intensive fixes of the production jets.

As to the operational jets, Bogdan said Lockheed and the JPO is working on an assessment of the danger for the operational jets to fly, and left open the possibility those jets could begin flying again before the fixes are in if the risk is found to be negligible.
source is DefenseNews
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typical positive F-35 news:
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A fix has been identified for the 15 F-35As
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and tests on the engineering will begin next week, said
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. The head of the Joint Program Office told the
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here that the F-35s should have their fuel tank insulation problems fixed by the end of the year.

Then the 42 airplanes still on the production line will be fixed. The two F-35As made for Israel, which need to be there in December for a big rollout ceremony, will be worked on immediately, Bogdan said. Planes still in production for Japan, Norway, Italy and Israeli will need to be fixed.

The problems with the insulation on the cooling lines inside the planes’ were caused by a secondary supplier. They were discovered during depot modification of an F-35A and affect a total of 57 aircraft. The insulation should have no effect on the F-135 engines, built by Pratt & Whitney, because it gets caught by filters or clogs inlets before it can reach the engines.

Bogdan, who praised prime contractor Lockheed Martin for its response to the issue, said the highest levels of the company were involved in finding the engineering fixes and in agreeing to pay for all the work needed to fix them. Calling the mistake “pretty fundamental,” he noted that both Lockheed and the supplier had not detected the problem in the first place and allowed the wrong material to be bought and installed. He would not identify the supplier, but did say they would continue to supply insulation to the program.

Perhaps the biggest
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in the long term was Bogdan’s estimate today that a block buy by allies and JSF partners of 450 aircraft would “conservatively” save $2 billion, including money saved by buying advanced parts for US jets. For readers not familiar with this approach, a block buy is not a multiyear purchase, which requires congressional approval. The block buy would occur over three years. Any partner buying planes in the lots covered by that sale would benefit from the savings starting with LRIP lot 12 and including lots 13 and 14. Bogdan is still hammering out prices with Lockheed for lots 9 and 10. He predicted a deal before the end of the year.
source is BreakingDefense
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The


The insulation covering the coolant lines is degraded by the coolant, major pain in the butt, but that's the "music business" or maybe I should have said "show business", LOL. It is indeed disappointing and the fact that we are talking depot level maintenance means its going to be a lot of work.

That's why its so important to do inspections and preventive maintenance, and whoever the supplier is will get "dinged" and likely have to "foot the bill"???
now Air Force to Begin More Repairs on Grounded F-35s
The U.S.
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will soon begin additional repairs on the grounded
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Joint Strike Fighter jets, the program’s top officer said.

The service on Friday ordered a
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of 13 out of 104 F-35s in the fleet “due to the discovery of peeling and crumbling insulation in avionics cooling lines inside the fuel tanks,” according to a statement at the time.

Two additional aircraft, belonging to Norway and currently stationed at
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, have also been affected.

Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, executive officer for the F-35 Lightning II Joint Program Office, on Tuesday said maintenance crews will begin additional repairs next week on the grounded aircraft.

“Now is the time to find this and fix them,” he said during a panel at the annual Air Force Association’s Air, Space & Cyber conference in National Harbor, Maryland. “It affects only 15 model A airplanes, and if this problem were not to be found today — but three or four years from now — we [would have had] hundreds of airplanes out there affected.”

Officials called the F-35 program a global initiative, with more than eight partner countries acquiring the plane. The latest is Israel, which will receive its first two A models in December, Bogdan said. “You find things early, you fix them, you make the airplane better, you make the weapons system better, and you move on,” he said.

Gen. Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, commander of Air Combat Command, took aim at the aircraft’s critics when he said there are people “who will make comments, but will never actually have to do anything.” As far as he was concerned, Carlisle said, “If a [combatant commander] called me up and said, ‘I need these attributes’ and the F-35 fits, I would send it tomorrow. No doubt in my mind.”

The Joint Strike Fighter developed by Lockheed Martin Corp. last month surpassed a
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when officials declared the stealth jet initial operating capability.

The cost of the program has reached nearly $400 billion for more than 2,400 planes. The Air Force plans to buy 1,763 F-35As over 20 years.

In a separate briefing earlier in the day, Carlisle said the service has recently halved the number of squadrons expected to be in place in the next decade.

“A lot of things have changed since but in 2010 [we estimated] by the year 2028 we were going to have 32 F-35 squadrons. But in the 2016 budget [we estimate] by the year 2028 we will only have 14 … that’s a pretty drastic reduction.”

As a result of that gap, upgrading the fleet of
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and
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is a must in order to keep up with fifth-generation fighters such as the
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and F-35, Carlisle said.

The service also aims to do more with less driven in part by the higher operations tempo. In the air war against the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, “more than 60 percent” of operations weighs on the Air Force, the general said.

The Air Force should have more information on the status of the grounded F-35s “by the end of this week,” Carlisle said.

The aircraft at Hill Air Force Base in Utah “were the ones with the biggest impact to airplanes already out in the field,” he said, referring to the grounding. “We’ve had several conversations with Lockheed Martin … and we believe there is a way forward.”

Carlisle added this “is not a design problem … it’s not a developmental problem. It is a subcontractor that failed to perform to standards.” He said the flaw “is very contained.”

Neither Carlisle nor Bogdan would comment on which contractor is supplying the cooling lines, but Bogdan said the Air Force will use the same company going forward.
source:
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Aug 27, 2016
According the pics seems a great difference between report and test, pics...
absolutely, I'm waiting for the full text of the August 9 memo (so far it was only "obtained by Bloomberg News":
Lockheed’s F-35 Still Falls Short, Pentagon’s Tester Says
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here's the link:
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(I have to quit reading it now as my lunch break is over :)
 
Aug 27, 2016

here's the link:
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...
... and just one thing here: is it true (in the bottom of p. 12)
"In addition, actual layoffs have started, including maintenance personnel, engineers, analysts, and other personnel supporting flight sciences, mission systems and weapons testing. The steady loss of personnel is accelerating as other key personnel are looking for jobs and voluntarily leaving before they are eventually laid off."
?

EDIT
at this stage of the project, I would've expected the opposite to be true: hiring people to
  • quickly fix stuff before FOC (and block-buy)
  • prepare upgrades
  • etc. etc.
 
Last edited:

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
... and just one thing here: is it true (in the bottom of p. 12)
"In addition, actual layoffs have started, including maintenance personnel, engineers, analysts, and other personnel supporting flight sciences, mission systems and weapons testing. The steady loss of personnel is accelerating as other key personnel are looking for jobs and voluntarily leaving before they are eventually laid off."
?

EDIT
at this stage of the project, I would've expected the opposite to be true: hiring people to
  • quickly fix stuff before FOC (and block-buy)
  • prepare upgrades
  • etc. etc.
There are different phases to every program.

During those phases you will find some people who have unique capabilities associated with that phase being let go as that phase ends.

At the sae time, other phases begin and people needed for that are hired.

Honestly, any one who want sto point to "lay offs" as a detraction can do so at almost any point in the project.

By the same token, as long as the project has not been canceled or severely impaired or damaged, they can talk to positive things because new people are being hired.

The F-35 is continuing on, and more and more production is going to take place and not just in the US.

As Italy and other places ramp up to build aircraft there, you will find that some of the work force in the US that was producing those initial aircraft are laid off...and some of them will be re-hired in the other countries.

IN addition, as more and more aircraft are delivered to the various armed services, you will find contractors who were maintaining and testing those aircraft being leveled out, and perhaps even laid off as the military picks up its phase of testing.

So...these are some of the ongoing realities of large programs like this. It does not mean tht the program is in trouble. Far from it...despite whatever issues they come across as they continue to move forward with the testing and integration of the aircraft into the military services of the US and elsewhere.
 
There are different phases to every program.

During those phases you will find some people who have unique capabilities associated with that phase being let go as that phase ends.

At the sae time, other phases begin and people needed for that are hired.

Honestly, any one who want sto point to "lay offs" as a detraction can do so at almost any point in the project.

By the same token, as long as the project has not been canceled or severely impaired or damaged, they can talk to positive things because new people are being hired.

The F-35 is continuing on, and more and more production is going to take place and not just in the US.

As Italy and other places ramp up to build aircraft there, you will find that some of the work force in the US that was producing those initial aircraft are laid off...and some of them will be re-hired in the other countries.

IN addition, as more and more aircraft are delivered to the various armed services, you will find contractors who were maintaining and testing those aircraft being leveled out, and perhaps even laid off as the military picks up its phase of testing.

So...these are some of the ongoing realities of large programs like this. It does not mean tht the program is in trouble. Far from it...despite whatever issues they come across as they continue to move forward with the testing and integration of the aircraft into the military services of the US and elsewhere.
let me rephrase my question from
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/f-...os-and-pics-thread.t5796/page-386#post-416592
Is there really "steady loss of personnel" involved in F-35 Project occurring now, as the document
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suggests at p. 12?

if there had been "steady loss of personnel" involved in F-35 Project now, it wouldn't have made sense to me because
... I would've expected the opposite to be true: hiring people to
  • quickly fix stuff before FOC (and block-buy)
  • prepare upgrades
  • etc. etc.
but I of course don't know if there is, or isn't, occurring "steady loss of personnel" involved in F-35 Project now, that's why I'm asking :)
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Difficult for repairs need " open " wings and fuselage for access to tanks ! so 3 months
Not naysayer or fan here but the list of problems is long ! fixed for majority but too much !

The US Air Force defends again the F-35

Following the problems encountered by the F-35A, related to the cooling pipes of insulation through the kerosene resevoirs, senior officers of the US Air Force are on the frontlines in defense of the unit, including fifteen copies are now confined to the ground since 16 September.

Lockheed Martin and the US Air Force have the ambition to repair these fifteen F-35 (thirteen American and two Norwegian based at Luke AFB) for the month of December. "The most recent problem which we are right now is not technical or conceptual, it is of a quality control failure at a supplier," commented Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan, head JPO (joint program Office, joint Office program).

The latter, as well as Lockheed Martin, the Air Force Life Cycle Management Center (lifecycle management center of the US Air Force) and the Naval Air Systems Command (command naval air systems) "defined a solution [which is to] break the wings or through access panels in order to recover the insulation, as well as foreign body resulting in damage before any close and put the aircraft in flight, "added the Lieutenant-General Bogdan.

There remains the question of the forty-two F-35 currently on the assembly line, which was also equipped with faulty pipes from the supplier concerned. "Our priority is to give airworthy fifteen current devices on the ground. The next two months [October-November] will be entirely devoted to these aircraft, we'll deal devices on the chain," said Lieutenant General Bogdan.

Still, it was a question of yet another problem faced by the JSF, after a long list that face the problems encountered by the turbojet, those related to the ejection seat, the malfunction of maintenace ALIS system or the Gen helmet to name a few. What prompted Brigadier General Scott Pleus, office manager Integration F-35 US Air Force, has a projection to temper the most negative opionions vis-à-vis the unit of Lockheed Martin.

"If your opinions are based on the statements of a person who did not fly on this or that has not kept in flying condition, I can tell you that you're wrong. I'm here present to tell you that this plane flies very well and it flies even better and better every day, "adding that the only experts F-35 are those which maintain the unit and are robbed daily

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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Important and fortunately not B and C !

As a lesson also if a AF have only one type of fighter and he is grounded no fighters after...
For small countries ofc understandable but for more big have minimum two is more safe USAF with 2000 fighters bombers need more types make sense.

US Air Force finds F-35 fuel line fix

...

Last week, the USAF revealed that a supplier used the wrong coating for the insulation which deteriorated when it met fuel. The crumbling insulation clogged the vent between the wing tank and fuselage tank, but would not affect the engine’s performance, Lt Gen Chris Bogdan said at annual Air Force Association conference Tuesday.

Lockheed will pay for engineering and modifications for all affected aircraft, including 15 USAF and Norwegian fighters and 42 on the production line. Although the issue affected some aircraft in lot 9, the tubing problem will not affect lot 9 contract negotiations and the air force expects an agreement by the end of the year, Bogdan says. The USAF intends on correcting the tubing issue and continuing with the same supplier, if they can deliver a quality product, he adds.

“Once we found the insulation issue we quickly corrected it with the company,” Bogdan says. “We sent our guys and Lockheed quality guys to make sure the PAO lines they’re now delivering are fully qualified.”

The supplier, which both Lockheed and the USAF have not identified, was a second source brought on last year as an insurance measure for the production ramp up, Bogdan says. The insulation issue will not affect the B and C variant of the F-35 because the company had decided to start as a smaller supplier confined to the F-35A, he says

The USAF has prioritized fixing the fielded aircraft, but the service will begin modifications in the next month on two F-35As for Israel that are slated for delivery in December. The maintenance issue affected 42 production line aircraft, which the USAF, Israel, Norway, Japan and Italy have not yet accepted.

The air force is conducting a risk assessment on all 15 of the temporarily grounded F-35As and should complete the study within the week, Bogdan says.

“Based on the damage we’ve seen from the inspections, we could get back in the air while they’re waiting to get fixed,” Bogdan says. “One of the things helping us is the tubes inside the fuel tank are at the leading edge of the wing. To get little pieces of the insulation from the front of the wing, all the way back to the back of the wing is really a difficult process.”

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Important and fortunately not B and C !

As a lesson also if a AF have only one type of fighter and he is grounded no fighters after...
For small countries ofc understandable but for more big have minimum two is more safe USAF with 2000 fighters bombers need more types make sense.
It sounded like, from the beginning, something that was identified and relatively easily corrected in terms of knowing what it was and how to fix it.

Now they just have to go through and do it.

...and the beat goes on.
 
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