F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
USN F-35C units :

According last infos VFA-97 based to Lemoore NAS woul be first F-35C front line Sqn actually use 12 F/A-18E transition beginning in 01/2018 a little strange it would have been more logical a F/A-18C Sqn ?

And VFA-101 based to Eglin go to Lemoore in 01/2017 to become Pacific Fleet F-35C Fleet readiness Sqn (FRS)/OCU, training unit.

In more two 10 F/A-18E/F Sqns from Oceana go to Lemoore in 2016/17.

Lemoore NAS woulh have for 2030 : 7 F-35C Sqns ( 10 fighters each ), 10 F/A-18E/F Sqns ( 12 ), a F-35C OCU ( 30 ) and a F/A-18E/F OCU ( 30 ).
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
We have been deceived :rolleyes: the true is :

Official answers...


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This was not a realistic combat exercise only for see flying qualities but there are DAS and others things...

Sounds like David Axe took things out of context during his analysis once again. Can't say that I am surprised.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Price engines, recently a question for it here.
He dropped much i remember about 20 for the first about 2/3 years ago :

F-35A,
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engine - $13.75 million
F-35B,
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engine (coupled to Rolls-Royce LiftSystem) - $32.49 million
F-35,
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engine - $13.75 million

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Many others data interesting there i think Jura our accountant would love that :D:):rolleyes:
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Sounds like David Axe took things out of context during his analysis once again. Can't say that I am surprised.
yes, he did, and after reading the actual document, while many of the observations may have been true, this aircraft has its control input and tweaks very certainly in the very safe range, and the test pilot recommends opening up the throttle on all control inputs, allowing the pilot to be much more aggressive as the likely fix for the concerns. I would recommend that any SDF posters who come by these documents be very careful in there dissemination, as they are indeed "sensitive" in nature, though not by any means "top secret".

As much as we love this information, and would love to get it "out there" it is a matter of national security, and that's all that needs to be said about that!

David Axe is the guilty party, not the test pilot, who is simply logging data and making observations.
 
To me, the F-35 Project had been the source of amusement(s) (around 2002 due to new technologies involved; since 2014 due to the way it's been procured; I tried to explain the 13-years gap :) https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/f-...os-and-pics-thread.t5796/page-237#post-329860
Now I'll stop posting in this Thread for one year, until Independence Day 2016, as I don't want to upset some people here I like. Just let me tell you I've tried to be impartial -- good news or bad news, I posted them if I thought they were not faked (and were important) -- which in this Thread sometimes looked as nay-saying, bashing, detracting ... which I believe it wasn't ... so I'll give myself a break.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
To me, the F-35 Project had been the source of amusement(s) (around 2002 due to new technologies involved; since 2014 due to the way it's been procured; I tried to explain the 13-years gap :) https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/f-...os-and-pics-thread.t5796/page-237#post-329860
Now I'll stop posting in this Thread for one year, until Independence Day 2016, as I don't want to upset some people here I like. Just let me tell you I've tried to be impartial -- good news or bad news, I posted them if I thought they were not faked (and were important) -- which in this Thread sometimes looked as nay-saying, bashing, detracting ... which I believe it wasn't ... so I'll give myself a break.

Hey Jr., nobody here thinks you are a naysayer, and self imposed limits on your posts will cause us to all miss out on your outstanding research into these sometimes obscure sources. David Axe is trying to feather his own nest by appearing to be the brightest bulb in the pack. That pilot report is very interesting and cogent to the points that I have personally made, and reading all the way through it, the pilot has some concerns and suggested "tweaks" for the FCS, which is why they flew that flight test??

No need to beat yourself up, we are all big boys, and I appreciate your honesty, it gives us an opportunity here to refute some of the nonsense that floats around in blogs like war is boring. I believe it is important to meet these criticisms head on, and present a cogent and thoughtful response. I did read the PIREP, and having read hundred of PIREPs and being a pilot, I found the PIREP itself to be very honest and instructive, it does affirm what I said, and AF-2 is the test vehicle being flown to its limits, which are of course determined by the FCS, which must be opened up as this aircrafts limits are "flown off".

So, no need for apologies or limitations, and if I don't see you on this thread posting, I will personally come to Prague and give you a swift kick in the arse. Now get back to sleep, you're on the nightshift!
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I'll stop posting in this Thread for one year, until Independence Day 2016, as I don't want to upset some people here I like.

Just let me tell you I've tried to be impartial -- good news or bad news, I posted them if I thought they were not faked (and were important) -- which in this Thread sometimes looked as nay-saying, bashing, detracting ... which I believe it wasn't.
No need, or desire for you to do that, Jura.

My own comments were directed at the source, and the quotes from those sources that were getting posted here. And those quotes from people who I believe either ought to have, or actually did, know better were detractor comments. Who definitely are detractors.

Particularly once they had been shown and proven as such.

They were not directed at you, my friend.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
look here is my take on this controversy.
When David Axe dropped the report the Internet Exploded with Every F35 hater blasting it as the stake through the F35's Heart.
But here is the blunt Truth. The unit in the Action was F35A tail number AF-02. it's low number says a lot. this is a test article it's like racing the advanced prototype of a Car in the Grand Prix it's got issues yet to be resolved and there is no way it can face down the tuned proven performers in there arena. In this Case Stealth would have done little. but the Distributed aperture system would have game changed.allowing the Pilot to Spot the Aggressor.

The biggest issue though is the perceived lack of kinetic energy. AF02 could not turn and Burn with F16, the Aircraft it's intended to replace.
but is that the end all be all?
F16 is second to the F22 Raptor, the most agile fighter in US service. Fighting Falcon Earns it name It loves the turn and burn and even with drop tanks F16 will fly circles around many of the worlds top fighters. So it's stiff competition. The issues in this case though stem from the issues of the F35, That mainly being thrust to weight. The Pilot compared it to that of the F15-E with PW229 engines. but with less thrust and a smaller wing. Not damning but important the given thrust to weight of a F35A with a full fuel load is .87 that of a half fueled F35A is 1.07. a F16 1.095 ( no given fuel load) so F16 has a Thrust advantage.
So Blind in one eye with and fighting in another players arena with a weight disadvantage it lost. some will call this damning realistically though it just shows lessons to be learned and adapted from. Mig 29 has a Thrust to Weight of 1.09 Well F15 has 1.07 yet in Combat F15 has killed Mig 29's with a zero loss rate from such.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Now I'll stop posting in this Thread for one year, until Independence Day 2016, as I don't want to upset some people here I like. Just let me tell you I've tried to be impartial -- good news or bad news, I posted them if I thought they were not faked (and were important) -- which in this Thread sometimes looked as nay-saying, bashing, detracting ... which I believe it wasn't ... so I'll give myself a break.

Fear not and continue to post my friend. You have very interesting information.
If you really want to get beaten up go to the JF-17 thread…hehehehe


Relax and have some wine....It is the weekend ;)
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
...here is the blunt Truth. The unit in the Action was F35A tail number AF-02. it's low number says a lot. this is a test article it's like racing the advanced prototype of a Car in the Grand Prix it's got issues yet to be resolved and there is no way it can face down the tuned proven performers in there arena. In this Case Stealth would have done little. but the Distributed aperture system would have game changed.allowing the Pilot to Spot the Aggressor.

The biggest issue though is the perceived lack of kinetic energy. AF02 could not turn and Burn with F16, the Aircraft it's intended to replace.

but is that the end all be all?

F16 is second to the F22 Raptor, the most agile fighter in US service. Fighting Falcon Earns it name It loves the turn and burn and even with drop tanks F16 will fly circles around many of the worlds top fighters. So it's stiff competition. The issues in this case though stem from the issues of the F35, That mainly being thrust to weight..
TE, we went through most of this earlier, the detractor's comments were outed...and then started to get repeated again, which is why I asked people to stop rehashing it above in Moderator's Comments.

Critical points are:

1) F-35s are restricted in their flight envelope right now. It has not been opened up.

2) The F-35 has some significant off angle capabilities and other sensor and weapons and queuing capabilities that are going to help a lot it in this arena.

Right now we do not know how much these things will offset the things you speak of...but they are being designed to matter a lot.

Until the envelope is opened up, and until the bird is operational with all of its capabilities available...there is no sense in being absolute one away or another. The proof will be in the pudding..

I believe when all of the above is done and in place, we are going to find that the F-35 is in fact going to turn and burn with the F-16 and be able to defeat most any aircraft even in the close in fighting. Others will disagree with that...but I believe it will be so, and time will tell.

But until the F-35 is opened up and fully operational...we only surmise.

The detractors want to do anything they can to place a stake in its heart...but they are going to fail at that.

As Equation likes to say...its the program. the people designing this bird and trying to get it to a fully opened up envelope and full operational capability really, really know what they are doing.

I predict they are not going to disappoint us.
 
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