F-22 Raptor Thread

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Gloire_bb
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    Gloire_bb Junior Member
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    I avoid estimates by guys who can precisely judge rcs with their eyes.
    We can just agree to disagree here, because i will believe in m 2+ fighter with any form of fixed inlets only after seeing actual comfirmation...
    you missunderstand. I have never told it's a disadvantage. I told what this ability is limited by internal fuel of the f-22, because due to combination of (1)significant fuel consuption even w/o reheat, (2)low fuel fraction, (3)thermal loads - raptor supercruises about as far as leading 4th generation fighters dash on their internal fuel. It is worthwhile to notice, though, what it happens only due to su-27 family being such a huge fuel cows: others don't come close. W/o flankers the f-22 could have a distinctive lead... But it just had to happen, what su-3x is the most frequent 4th gen opfor out there.
    Low IR signature, as well as this very ability to sacrifice fuel fraction w/o dropping supersonic performance are obvious advantages of f-22, no disagreement here....
    1, 2000kg=20%. Not enough of a difference? In aircraft flight profile, there is a fixed part(take off, climb, combat, landing), and much lesser "range" fraction. These 2000 kgs go tere.
    2, raptor isn't exactly an effective fuel-to-range converter: above mentioned approach "engine solves all" has its downsides. Uncompromised stealth, speed, maneuverability and internal carriage always "appear" somewhere else.
    3, hardly a stable argument, but su-57 layout strongly reminds ATF "supercruisers" - i don't mean widow, rather other discarded proposals, which invested heavier into effective supercruise and lost. Integral layout, increased attention to supersonic drag - all play a hand.
    Fuel tanks: everyone have them. But for typical 4th gen they mean just drag and maneuvering penalties. For 5th gen, we additionally sacrifice supercruise and stealth.
    Second part later this evening.
     
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  2. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Actually I'm testing Raptors can super cruise with tanks. Again still has reduced drag penalties vs fourth gens because even with tanks it's very clean and raptor' s fuselage is a lifting surface
     
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  3. Jura
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    Jura General

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    yeah, good job by $400m machines, while according to the acting SECNAV (https://www.navytimes.com/news/your...covery-will-suffer-under-defense-budget-cuts/)
    :
    “We are at an inflection point as we shift from using F-22s with rockets to shoot someone off a bicycle…to the great power competition,” he said.
     
  4. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Fixed that for you Jura.
    What should we do? Lock them away in some vault? We paid for them to be used. If they are not used what's the point. Unlike a nuclear weapon that is 99% politics 1% Apocalypse. F22 is a fighter aircraft it's only effective if it's used.
     
  5. Jura
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    Jura General

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    LOL last time I went through this ... Nov 12, 2018

    here (using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor)

    Program cost US$66.7 billion
    Number built 195
    66700/195 is OK 342 (so in the morning I incorrectly rounded to the nearest hundred LOL)

    save them for later?

    I didn't figure why they used them for example off Elmendorf against turpoprob Bears etc.
     
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  6. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    You mean like Zumwalt class?
     
  7. Jura
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    Jura General

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    no, I mean using teen-series instead of Raptors,

    or sending Warthogs (and not Raptors) to, using the SECNAV's hyperbole, "shoot someone off a bicycle" Today at 7:41 AM
     
  8. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Look Afghanistan is a but much, I'll Grant you. But crawl walk run. Raptor was employed in Afghanistan to and then when Syria started and the Russians started loading up air denial technology. It proved useful. Every actual deployment is a lesson learned.
     
  9. Jura
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    Jura General

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    not sure what do you mean, but I've meant combat sorties, and:

    First Combat Flight Wasn’t Until 2014 https://militarymachine.com/f22-facts/

    "The mission involved targeting and striking an ISIS command and control building in
    Syria"
     
  10. Jura
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    Jura General

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