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datangshan135.jpg -
datangshan136.jpg
Dong-Feng, J-9 and Co. - failed projects
- Thread starter Gollevainen
- Start date
So, after the last mystery was successfully solved ... up to the next quest !??!
… since some time I’m playing around with the Dong Feng-104, DF-107 and DF-107A-types of fighters and since not really much is known about them I started my own „reverse-construction“ on the DF-104. The resulting side profiles made by JP “Sentinel Chicken” are maybe known since some time … and now I met a friend who helps to draw some CG’s.
What is known so far just in short:
DF-104 small single engined fighter later succeeded by the DF-107 … as far as I know all what is known on behalf of illustration is a tiny, grainy picture of a desk-top-model (even if some say this represents the DF-107)
DF-107: enlarged development of the DF-104 with two engines and especially a variable incidence wing.
DF-107A: simplified and heavily redesigned DF-107with a much simpler wing-geometry and other changes (RD-9 instead of the Red-Flag-2).
DF-113: final known project of the DF-series from Harbin which led finally to the cancellation of the DF-107/A.
My idea was, that on behalf of the only very short time of their development not much - especially as a completely new design - could have been made. I based all these "what-if's" or "guesswork-proposals" (to be honest) on the model and suggested minor and do-able changes more like an evolution by adding typical design elements.
These are the first pre-views of the DF-104, DF-107 and DF-107A (speculative) and the slightly better known DF-113.
Hope You like them …. And please add Your suggestions for correction to improve them !
Cheers, Deino
… since some time I’m playing around with the Dong Feng-104, DF-107 and DF-107A-types of fighters and since not really much is known about them I started my own „reverse-construction“ on the DF-104. The resulting side profiles made by JP “Sentinel Chicken” are maybe known since some time … and now I met a friend who helps to draw some CG’s.
What is known so far just in short:
DF-104 small single engined fighter later succeeded by the DF-107 … as far as I know all what is known on behalf of illustration is a tiny, grainy picture of a desk-top-model (even if some say this represents the DF-107)
DF-107: enlarged development of the DF-104 with two engines and especially a variable incidence wing.
DF-107A: simplified and heavily redesigned DF-107with a much simpler wing-geometry and other changes (RD-9 instead of the Red-Flag-2).
DF-113: final known project of the DF-series from Harbin which led finally to the cancellation of the DF-107/A.
My idea was, that on behalf of the only very short time of their development not much - especially as a completely new design - could have been made. I based all these "what-if's" or "guesswork-proposals" (to be honest) on the model and suggested minor and do-able changes more like an evolution by adding typical design elements.
These are the first pre-views of the DF-104, DF-107 and DF-107A (speculative) and the slightly better known DF-113.
Hope You like them …. And please add Your suggestions for correction to improve them !
Cheers, Deino
Attachments
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DF-104 progress preview 1.jpg -
DF-107 + -107A progress preview 1.jpg -
DF-113 proposal_001 small.jpg
peperez
New Member
So, after the last mystery was successfully solved ... up to the next quest !??!
… since some time I’m playing around with the Dong Feng-104, DF-107 and DF-107A-types of fighters and since not really much is known about them I started my own „reverse-construction“ on the DF-104. The resulting side profiles made by JP “Sentinel Chicken” are maybe known since some time … and now I met a friend who helps to draw some CG’s.
What is known so far just in short:
DF-104 small single engined fighter later succeeded by the DF-107 … as far as I know all what is known on behalf of illustration is a tiny, grainy picture of a desk-top-model (even if some say this represents the DF-107)
DF-107: enlarged development of the DF-104 with two engines and especially a variable incidence wing.
DF-107A: simplified and heavily redesigned DF-107with a much simpler wing-geometry and other changes (RD-9 instead of the Red-Flag-2).
DF-113: final known project of the DF-series from Harbin which led finally to the cancellation of the DF-107/A.
My idea was, that on behalf of the only very short time of their development not much - especially as a completely new design - could have been made. I based all these "what-if's" or "guesswork-proposals" (to be honest) on the model and suggested minor and do-able changes more like an evolution by adding typical design elements.
These are the first pre-views of the DF-104, DF-107 and DF-107A (speculative) and the slightly better known DF-113.
Hope You like them …. And please add Your suggestions for correction to improve them !
Cheers, Deino
I thing you and your friend must built them for flying simmulation...
Oh guys ... once again me this time with a historical question regarding the originla requirement for the J-8:
In a few reports about the J-8 it is written that the requirement for the J-8 (in parallel to the concurring J-9) stem from "... – due to conclusions drawn by several aerial combat in the years 1962-63 – it was recognized that the ranges and performance at greater ceailing of these types was particularly insufficient."
But reagrding this date 1962-63 ... there were - at least as far as I know - no aerial combat in the years 1962-63 in which the PLAAF or PLANAF was involved. Vietnam was much later and in the Sino-Indian-Border-War of 1962 there were also no aerial combats !
As such ... were these lessons learnt from other combat engagements like the "Cuba Crisis 1962", ... or is this statement plain wrong !???
Thanks in advance,
Deino
In a few reports about the J-8 it is written that the requirement for the J-8 (in parallel to the concurring J-9) stem from "... – due to conclusions drawn by several aerial combat in the years 1962-63 – it was recognized that the ranges and performance at greater ceailing of these types was particularly insufficient."
But reagrding this date 1962-63 ... there were - at least as far as I know - no aerial combat in the years 1962-63 in which the PLAAF or PLANAF was involved. Vietnam was much later and in the Sino-Indian-Border-War of 1962 there were also no aerial combats !
As such ... were these lessons learnt from other combat engagements like the "Cuba Crisis 1962", ... or is this statement plain wrong !???
Thanks in advance,
Deino
Hmmm ... not sure how realiable this is, but it seems to be quite a detailed report about the DF-113's development process untill its death !
BUT ... - even if I have to admit that not everything is clear to me - two thing were new to me and here I would like to ask for confirmation or correction:
1. First of all as far as I understod this project so far, it was not proposed by adesign team (quite typical for that time) but from the Military Engineering Academy in Harbin in September 1958. However this text constantly speek of Factory 112 ... which is / was located at SAC in Shenyang ! Does that mean that SAC was "forced" to continue / finish development work of the DF-113 instead of their own DF-107/107A ??
2. And second i one of the final paragraphs it is written:
translated by BING !
Can anyone help me out ... is that correct, a DF-117 ?? ... or is this a typo with DF-107 ??
Cheers and thanks in advance,
Deino
BUT ... - even if I have to admit that not everything is clear to me - two thing were new to me and here I would like to ask for confirmation or correction:
1. First of all as far as I understod this project so far, it was not proposed by adesign team (quite typical for that time) but from the Military Engineering Academy in Harbin in September 1958. However this text constantly speek of Factory 112 ... which is / was located at SAC in Shenyang ! Does that mean that SAC was "forced" to continue / finish development work of the DF-113 instead of their own DF-107/107A ??
2. And second i one of the final paragraphs it is written:
translated by BING !
Can anyone help me out ... is that correct, a DF-117 ?? ... or is this a typo with DF-107 ??
Cheers and thanks in advance,
Deino
A better version of this already known display ... anyone with more info about where and esp. what's that model on the right (in camo ...seems like the SAC naval bird in a new camo !) ?? As far as I remember this wasn't visible on the first photos.
Deino
Deino
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Chinese secret projects better - smaller.jpg
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looks like J-9 proposal from SAC.