Chinese Engines Miss The Finish Line

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by antiterror13, Oct 12, 2011.

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  1. latenlazy
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    latenlazy Colonel

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    Do you have those cutaways? Because if you don't and that is your standard of proof, the conclusion shouldn't be to trust one source over another, but to hold a position of more information needed. Otherwise you are as biased as you claim others of being.
     
  2. MiG-29
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    MiG-29 Banned Idiot

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    i will explain


    Jet engines are not the same, a fighter has different needs to an airliner, second China has a fleet of J-11s and J-10s.

    To claim the WS-10 is based upon this CFM56 and claim they made a high by pass engine an engine better than the AL-31 is pure fantasy.

    To start, in order to replace the Al-31 you need an engine with similar size, weight, and performance, J-10 needs a fighter engine not an airliner engine

    this is the CFM56 see its size and weight are not compatible with a Al-31
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/CFM56_P1220759.jpg
    to start CFM56 is wider, shorter and has high by pass
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Saturn_AL-31_FN_1.jpg

    this means for the chinese was even harder turn the CFM56 into a WS-10 than copying Al-31 and making it a WS-10

    in the past fighters with bomber engines F-14 in example lacked agility or airliners engines like AJ-37 viggen, these engines are not for fighters, now try to fit that engine into a fighter like J-10 which is a high performance jet, means to complex.

    Second the chinese have great knowledge of Al-31, so basing the engine WS-10 upon AL-31 is more logic and doable than upon an airliner engine

    now see the engine in which the Viggen based its engine
    JT8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/39/WIKI_JT8DPWMDHL.jpg

    volvo RM8
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/VolvoAero_RM8.JPG
    they are very similar in size weight and performance
    now let us go upon Chingkuo engine

    http://imagery.vnfawing.com/archive/Engines/TFE1042-70/p0461.jpg

    http://imagery.vnfawing.com/archive/Engines/TFE1042-70/p0069689.jpg
     
    #42 MiG-29, Oct 13, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  3. latenlazy
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    latenlazy Colonel

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    ...It uses the CFM56's core. Yano...like how the F101 was the basis for the CFM5 and the F110.
     
    #43 latenlazy, Oct 13, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  4. Deino
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    Deino Brigadier
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    THANKs but honestly it seems You don't want to understand !

    What do You want to show with the comparison of the CFM-56 with the AL-31 ??? ... I think even a blind one sees that they are not comparable.

    No-one here said the CFM-56 was remodeled into the WS-10A ... but as You self posted above there was an engine called F101 (actually the B-1's engine) and the core of this engine was once used as a basis for the CFM-56 ... as such if the CHinese used the CFM-56's core (without the huge high-bypass fan) they had a nice basis for their own WS-10A. So far the theory !

    And again ... the WS-10A could not be based on the AL-31F, since it's development started at a time, when no AL-31 was available ... but reportedly a few CFM-56 "got lost" delivered with the first B.737.

    Deino
     
  5. plawolf
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    plawolf Brigadier

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    At first I couldn't figure out how such a ridiculously poor article could generate 3 pages worth of discussion. But having had a look at who was posting, it suddenly made sense.

    Haven't we already done one of these, everyone vs Mig29, threads before? I predict this one will be little different.
     
  6. asif iqbal
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    asif iqbal Brigadier

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    I think Russians just cant get over the fact that they are no longer ahead of China in aviation industry

    some Russians still think they are in USSR and one day will take on America!
     
  7. MiG-29
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    MiG-29 Banned Idiot

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    and you think is just removing the low pressure turbine cloning the engine and that`s it, the design of the CFM56 was with direct american assistance, like the R8M from JT8D, developing the WS-10 without technical assistance, and later turn it into a high performance is easier said than done, in the case of CFM56, you get two well developed engine makers with technical documentation, F-101 is a bomber engine, which means is not a fighter engine, the F-110 is a fighter engine true, but it is far harder to turn the basic CFM56 into a high performance fighter engine like Al-31.

    What you are saying is China cloned the basic compressor/combustor of CFM56 and later turned into the WS-10, this is not even believeable, to do it you requiered to know the basic F-101 technologies and have the needed tooling to make it, which China lacked, the only engine available was Al-31, in fact the WS-10 is still uncapable to fill the role of Al-31 that new batches of Al-31 were bought.

    For the Chinese copying the Al-31 was something logic, first they have the engine since 1992, the WS-10 engine needs to substitute the Al-31 in jets that use it , for that reason china is looking for US tech, why they were shopping for an F-16 engine as popular mechanics quote? the reason is they lack information and technology to match even the basic Al-31.
     
    #47 MiG-29, Oct 13, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  8. MiG-29
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    MiG-29 Banned Idiot

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    Russia remains ahead of China in aviation.

    Superjet from Sukhoi has russian-french engine, ARJ-21 does not use chinese engine, Russia does not buy WS-10s from China to power Su-35s
     
    #48 MiG-29, Oct 13, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
  9. Schumacher
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    Schumacher Senior Member

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    Russia was never really very far ahead anyway. Their engines had very poor reliability and short life. A few J10 were lost due to engines.
    Pretty soon PLAAF was getting better reliability and longer life out of their AL31 than Russia themselves. Now with better performances of WS10, China will only pull away faster.
     
  10. MiG-29
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    MiG-29 Banned Idiot

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    that is the reason they have bought 900 Al-31s, because WS-10 still can not compete, the can not make better their WS-10 but of course they do better Al-31 yeah
     
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