China's strategy in Korean peninsula

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
How's the Sino-Vietnamese relationship now? Look beyond the rhetoric, how is it really? The Vietnamese economy is very much dependent on China's and it's becoming more so by the day. Despite all the nationalist hooplas they've only lost islands to China and their ability to challenge Chinese claims lessen by the day.

What does it mean to be in the sinosphere? It means that no matter how hard you try to leave, you'll be inexorably sucked back in. Vietnam is living proof of it. They cannot help but be under Chinese influence as they have been for 2000 years, no matter how hard they've tried and are still trying.

This is why a unified Korea is not a concern to China. Sure a separated one, preferably with a more stable leadership in the North, isn't a concern either, but a united one is also not of any greater concern. They'll be under the sinosphere, one way or another.

You know what? I agree with you that in the long term China got this in this bag, but in the short time, not really, you said so yourself, Vietnam economy is very much depended on China, but how has that translated into Vietnamese public and foreign policy towards China? Has this dependence made Vietnam a ally of China? Have the people in Vietnam think the Chinese as their brothers and sisters? No, economic interdependence in Vietnam, Mongolia, Korea has NOT translated into any shift in Pro Chinese foreign policy in the past 20 years, if anything their anti Chinese sentiment has only risen due to their fear of being dominated by China.

You also probably didn't read my other post that says I'm not saying Korea should be dived forever, because last time Korea was united for well over 500 years and it was a vessel state of 2 Chinese dynasties. Rather that Korea should be divided for the foreseeable future until China attains overwhelming strength and advantage over rest of China's neighbor, and gains gains trust and true respect from everyone of them.

One day the Sinosphere will come back, but it won't help China right now if all of China's neighbors currently don't hold high opinion of her and if they ever get their shit together too soon it won't be in China's interest.
 
now I read
China calls for Korean Peninsula calm
2017-08-11 17:16 GMT+8
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China's Foreign Ministry addresses all parties involved in escalating tensions over the Korean Peninsula.

"All sides should do more to help ease tensions on the Korean Peninsula and not to take turns in showing strength," said Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang in a written statement.

Geng made the remark after the DPRK military announced that it is working on plans for a missile strike near the US Pacific territory of Guam and US President Donald Trump said that threats to the US from Pyongyang would be met with "fire and fury".
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
You know what? I agree with you that in the long term China got this in this bag, but in the short time, not really, you said so yourself, Vietnam economy is very much depended on China, but how has that translated into Vietnamese public and foreign policy towards China? Has this dependence made Vietnam a ally of China? Have the people in Vietnam think the Chinese as their brothers and sisters? No, economic interdependence in Vietnam, Mongolia, Korea has NOT translated into any shift in Pro Chinese foreign policy in the past 20 years, if anything their anti Chinese sentiment has only risen due to their fear of being dominated by China.

You also probably didn't read my other post that says I'm not saying Korea should be dived forever, because last time Korea was united for well over 500 years and it was a vessel state of 2 Chinese dynasties. Rather that Korea should be divided for the foreseeable future until China attains overwhelming strength and advantage over rest of China's neighbor, and gains gains trust and true respect from everyone of them.

One day the Sinosphere will come back, but it won't help China right now if all of China's neighbors currently don't hold high opinion of her and if they ever get their shit together too soon it won't be in China's interest.

Not ALL of Asian countries and their populations has a beef with China. Because not everybody or even a majority fall for that anti-China narrative and rhetoric that many Western media and their anti-China media allies seems to perpetuate the drama. For example in the North Korean tensions are a big news and concern for many American people but the drama does not hold true in South Korea. I got this information from a friend of mine who's wife is South Korean. That's because they are used to hearing and seeing news about North Korean leader blustering and rhetoric for decades and nothing happens. It is only in the US that they make it as a doom and gloom moment, "god" save us all kind of geopolitical drama.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
I saw a clip of FOX News explaining to it viewers what happened in the Korean War. All they did was say North Korea invaded into South Korea and the US and allies beat them back to the original border. Why didn't they mention how the US pushed North Korea into nothingness squeezing them up against the Chinese border? That would've gotten their viewers excited. But then they would have to explain why the borders went back to the 38th parallel. Don't mention the Chinese part just like North Korea doesn't.
The "Sino-Korean border" story is always a sore that both NK and US want to avoid and forget for the same reason.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
How's the Sino-Vietnamese relationship now? Look beyond the rhetoric, how is it really? The Vietnamese economy is very much dependent on China's and it's becoming more so by the day. Despite all the nationalist hooplas they've only lost islands to China and their ability to challenge Chinese claims lessen by the day.

What does it mean to be in the sinosphere? It means that no matter how hard you try to leave, you'll be inexorably sucked back in. Vietnam is living proof of it. They cannot help but be under Chinese influence as they have been for 2000 years, no matter how hard they've tried and are still trying.

This is why a unified Korea is not a concern to China. Sure a separated one, preferably with a more stable leadership in the North, isn't a concern either, but a united one is also not of any greater concern. They'll be under the sinosphere, one way or another.
Exactly like the saying goes "God is too far, China is too close". Like it or not, nobody can change the tectonic plates of earth.
 

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not ALL of Asian countries and their populations has a beef with China. Because not everybody or even a majority fall for that anti-China narrative and rhetoric that many Western media and their anti-China media allies seems to perpetuate the drama. For example in the North Korean tensions are a big news and concern for many American people but the drama does not hold true in South Korea. I got this information from a friend of mine who's wife is South Korean. That's because they are used to hearing and seeing news about North Korean leader blustering and rhetoric for decades and nothing happens. It is only in the US that they make it as a doom and gloom moment, "god" save us all kind of geopolitical drama.

Go ahead, do a google search to see how do Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia sees China, let me know the results. Please do not use personal annotate to support your argument, use data and facts to support your thesis.

I want China to succeed as anyone, but blind patriotism and bury your head in sand does not help. China do have a imagine problem, you cab blame the West's spreading of negative Chinese PR, you can blame China's lack of counter media narrative etc... but truth is China is not liked or respected by a lot of its neighbors, the sooner that is realzie the sooner to work on the solution. But not realizing, not accepting does not make the situation better.

Let me ask you this, how have billions of trade with Vietnam soften Vietnam position in SCS? The recent concluded ASEAN meeting China was the bigger winner but Vietnam opposed China more than ever. Same thing for South Korea, millions of Chinese tourist goes to SK and buys their products and support their pop culture, but when US demands THAAD SK took no Chinese interest whatsoever and just agreed. And look at Mongolia, 80% of Mongolia's economy and trade depends on China, they just elected someone who run on a Neo Nazi Anti-Chinese platform president.

All of what I described is as real as it come, instead of saying it does not exist, by not ask yourself, why does it exist? What have China done or not done to make the situation like its today? What can China do better in the future to foster a different course to gain better opinion etc..
 

dingyibvs

Junior Member
You know what? I agree with you that in the long term China got this in this bag, but in the short time, not really, you said so yourself, Vietnam economy is very much depended on China, but how has that translated into Vietnamese public and foreign policy towards China? Has this dependence made Vietnam a ally of China? Have the people in Vietnam think the Chinese as their brothers and sisters? No, economic interdependence in Vietnam, Mongolia, Korea has NOT translated into any shift in Pro Chinese foreign policy in the past 20 years, if anything their anti Chinese sentiment has only risen due to their fear of being dominated by China.

You also probably didn't read my other post that says I'm not saying Korea should be dived forever, because last time Korea was united for well over 500 years and it was a vessel state of 2 Chinese dynasties. Rather that Korea should be divided for the foreseeable future until China attains overwhelming strength and advantage over rest of China's neighbor, and gains gains trust and true respect from everyone of them.

One day the Sinosphere will come back, but it won't help China right now if all of China's neighbors currently don't hold high opinion of her and if they ever get their shit together too soon it won't be in China's interest.

Like I said before, they'll never stop trying to leave, they just won't succeed. Ask yourself this, has the Vietnamese public and foreign policy attitude toward China done anything substantial recently? Anything at all? It went from full-scale conflict in '79 to sea skirmishes in the subsequent decades to now mostly just rhetoric.

I recall a saying by a top Vietnamese official from many years ago, it went something like the French come and go, the Americans come and go, but China will always be here. Take a look from their perspective, they're living under the ever present threat of being swallowed up by China, if not militarily at least economically, culturally, and politically. They'll never stop trying to stop this, as they know what happened to the kingdoms of e.g. Dali or Manchuria, kingdoms that once were but never will be except in Chinese history books.

Don't expect them to love China so easily, because the moment they do is the moment they've lost--their country, their culture, and their identity.
 

sanblvd

Junior Member
Registered Member
Like I said before, they'll never stop trying to leave, they just won't succeed. Ask yourself this, has the Vietnamese public and foreign policy attitude toward China done anything substantial recently? Anything at all? It went from full-scale conflict in '79 to sea skirmishes in the subsequent decades to now mostly just rhetoric.

I recall a saying by a top Vietnamese official from many years ago, it went something like the French come and go, the Americans come and go, but China will always be here. Take a look from their perspective, they're living under the ever present threat of being swallowed up by China, if not militarily at least economically, culturally, and politically. They'll never stop trying to stop this, as they know what happened to the kingdoms of e.g. Dali or Manchuria, kingdoms that once were but never will be except in Chinese history books.

Don't expect them to love China so easily, because the moment they do is the moment they've lost--their country, their culture, and their identity.

Oh no, Vietnam is stuck with China for better or worse, but that does not mean they won't cause China any damage if they really want to, they are the only real resistance left for China in Asia Pacific now that Philippine has folded. US carrier is going to dock in Vietnam next year, and Vietnam is probably going to start to buy US weapons and with any chance another US base right on China's footstep.

Does this going to effect China in the long term? not really, does it going to have a impact on China in the short term, very much so.

It seems your argument is that its in Vietnam's DNA to hate China, and also in Vietnam's DNA to submit to Chinese dominance therefore China should not worry about Vietnam, because eventually history will win out and China will have its way... to be fair yeah that is the historical pattern of interaction of Vietnam and China. But still, in the modern age, do not underestimate a unified nation of 90+ million under China's noses and being very hostile to China, they are capable of doing real damage to Chinese interest if push come to shove. Therefore Vietnam's action towards China does matter a lot more than you like to easily dismiss, and for same reason, a unified Korean with similar sentiment towards China will be the same.

And lastly it seems everyone think I'm being an A-hole for preventing Korean from unification therefore from a morality point of view I'm wrong. No, not really, Vietnam would NEVER unify without China's help, China send tens of thousands of Chinese into Vietnam to fight for them, run logistics for them, giving them food, weapons, ammo, setting up SAM network etc... And that was during the hardest time of China's great leap forwards, millions of Chinese were dying of hunger, but Mao collected rice from starving farmers and send it to North Vietnam so they can free up the Vietnamese farmers to fight in the South, that was one of the most stupidest action China have ever taken, if China had done less or nothing, Vietnam would still be divided and busy feuding with each other, and China would not suffer such sacrifice. Same situation for Korea, the only way for Korea to unify is for China to get involved to help one side over the other, there is no way in hell both Korea will unify with each other on their own, therefore if China decides to do nothing its not morally wrong, this is what I'm advocating, do nothing and Korea will stay divided until a much more powerful China arrives in the future to better deal with Vietnam and Korea and Mongolia and Japan.
 
now I read
Xi urges restraint on Korean nuclear issue in phone talk with Trump
Xinhua| 2017-08-12 17:06:14
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Chinese President Xi Jinping urged restraint regarding the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula in a phone conversation with his U.S. counterpart Donald Trump on Saturday.

The concerned parties should avoid remarks and actions that could escalate tensions on the peninsula, Xi said, adding China is ready to work with the United States to appropriately resolve the issue.

Xi stressed that China and the United States have common interests in achieving denuclearization on the Korean Peninsula and maintaining peace and stability there.

The concerned parities should strive to resolve the issue through dialogue and negotiation to reach a political solution, Xi said.

China is willing to keep close contacts with the United States, on the basis of mutual respect, to seek a sound settlement on the issue, he added.

Xi said he had a productive meeting with President Trump on the sidelines of the Group of 20 Summit last month in Hamburg, Germany.

Maintaining close contacts between the two leaders on issues of common concern is "very important for the development of the China-U.S. relations," Xi added.

He urged the two sides to enhance dialogue and communication in accordance with the consensus previously reached, promote exchanges and cooperation in various fields, and appropriately deal with each other's concerns, so as to ensure healthy and stable advancement of bilateral ties.

Furthermore, the Chinese president said that Beijing places high value on Trump's state visit to China later this year, urging both sides to make good preparations for the visit.

Trump, for his part, also stressed the importance of maintaining close contacts between the two leaders on major issues and strengthening exchanges between their countries at all levels as well as in various areas.

The development of U.S.-China relations enjoys good momentum, he noted, voicing his belief that bilateral ties could be better.

The U.S. president also said that he is looking forward to his state visit to China.

On the Korean nuclear issue, Trump said the United States fully understands China's efforts in resolving it, and is willing to continue to keep close contacts with Beijing on major international and regional issues of common concern.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Go ahead, do a google search to see how do Vietnam, Korea, Mongolia sees China, let me know the results. Please do not use personal annotate to support your argument, use data and facts to support your thesis.

I want China to succeed as anyone, but blind patriotism and bury your head in sand does not help. China do have a imagine problem, you cab blame the West's spreading of negative Chinese PR, you can blame China's lack of counter media narrative etc... but truth is China is not liked or respected by a lot of its neighbors, the sooner that is realzie the sooner to work on the solution. But not realizing, not accepting does not make the situation better.

Let me ask you this, how have billions of trade with Vietnam soften Vietnam position in SCS? The recent concluded ASEAN meeting China was the bigger winner but Vietnam opposed China more than ever. Same thing for South Korea, millions of Chinese tourist goes to SK and buys their products and support their pop culture, but when US demands THAAD SK took no Chinese interest whatsoever and just agreed. And look at Mongolia, 80% of Mongolia's economy and trade depends on China, they just elected someone who run on a Neo Nazi Anti-Chinese platform president.

All of what I described is as real as it come, instead of saying it does not exist, by not ask yourself, why does it exist? What have China done or not done to make the situation like its today? What can China do better in the future to foster a different course to gain better opinion etc..

Asian jealousy perhaps? Remember when Japan used to be hated by all of Asia? Time and perspective has changed. You don't think Japan and Korea (both north and south) despised each other as well? There are also many South Koreans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Thais, and Japanese that still travels to China for various reasons. I think you are taking this anti-China imaging to heart too much. It's not all that bad as the western media would like to perpetuate. Remember China is a Communist country, therefore they need to portray all "communism as evil" otherwise their current rulers and status quo will not be legit. The fact of the matter is that China's image does NOT revolves around a few haters no matter what. The solution is to quiet the naysayers, simple as that. There's not enough hate among China's neighbors to go war with China or trade sanctions.
 
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