China's SCS Strategy Thread

Equation

Lieutenant General
No One Lost the South China Sea (And No One Will)

As we all see, the situation in the South China Sea is cooling down, and the biggest variable is the emerging Sino-U.S. maritime strategic competition. There have been three major views, all of which stem from anxiety, in the western strategic sphere recently on this issue, namely, the so-called
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, U.S. fecklessness and China’s control of the South China Sea with at the cost of others’ interests. That would contribute to much of China-lashing rhetoric these days. In my observation, all the above points are biased to some degree.

No one lost the South China Sea and no one will. Firstly, no power including China and the United States has the capacity to control the South China Sea regardless its intentions, as we are living in a world where power is more balanced. It’s true that China has made great strides in terms of military modernization and increased power presence, but other South China Sea littoral states and outside powers such as the United States are all strengthening their power presence and military deployments in the region as well. In the foreseeable future, it’s difficult to imagine that China or any other country could achieve predominance in the South China Sea." data-reactid="27" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">No one lost the South China Sea and no one will. Firstly, no power including China and the United States has the capacity to control the South China Sea regardless its intentions, as we are living in a world where power is more balanced. It’s true that China has made great strides in terms of military modernization and increased power presence, but other South China Sea littoral states and outside powers such as the United States are all strengthening their power presence and military deployments in the region as well. In the foreseeable future, it’s difficult to imagine that China or any other country could achieve predominance in the South China Sea.

Secondly, when we talk about sea power and sea control in our current times, it just means relative influence and comparative advantage in some maritime areas, because today’ sea power is definitely an inclusive system rather than exclusive one. With China’s rise, it is increasingly difficult for the United States to impose the Mahan doctrine on China in the South China Sea; and no matter how far China develops, it is not likely to pursue so called “maritime hegemony,” given United States’ powerful forces in and around the South China Sea. After a long term competition, both sides will finally find out that there is no choice but to establish a common and inclusive security order with ASEAN Member States and other stakeholders." data-reactid="28" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">Secondly, when we talk about sea power and sea control in our current times, it just means relative influence and comparative advantage in some maritime areas, because today’ sea power is definitely an inclusive system rather than exclusive one. With China’s rise, it is increasingly difficult for the United States to impose the Mahan doctrine on China in the South China Sea; and no matter how far China develops, it is not likely to pursue so called “maritime hegemony,” given United States’ powerful forces in and around the South China Sea. After a long term competition, both sides will finally find out that there is no choice but to establish a common and inclusive security order with ASEAN Member States and other stakeholders.


The foremost American problem is not that it has not done enough, but that it has done too much in the South China Sea. The U.S. officials and experts are always criticizing China’s militarization in the South China Sea, but never mention the increasing radical actions of U.S. forces there. Every year, the U.S. military would carry out hundreds of military exercises and thousands of close reconnaissance missions in the South China Sea. Since May 2017, U.S. warships have entered twelve nautical miles of islands and reefs stationed by China more than ten times already, conducting a series of provocations like high-speed zigzag and electronic jamming, which poses a huge threat to the sovereignty and security of China and Chinese people on these islands and reefs." data-reactid="39" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">The foremost American problem is not that it has not done enough, but that it has done too much in the South China Sea. The U.S. officials and experts are always criticizing China’s militarization in the South China Sea, but never mention the increasing radical actions of U.S. forces there. Every year, the U.S. military would carry out hundreds of military exercises and thousands of close reconnaissance missions in the South China Sea. Since May 2017, U.S. warships have entered twelve nautical miles of islands and reefs stationed by China more than ten times already, conducting a series of provocations like high-speed zigzag and electronic jamming, which poses a huge threat to the sovereignty and security of China and Chinese people on these islands and reefs.

The United States’ excessive involvement in the South China Sea has forced China to deploy more defensive equipment there, and made more and more Chinese people realize the hypocrisy of the United States. Frankly speaking, should there not been the U.S. intervention, China would not have the need to take above-mentioned countermeasures ." data-reactid="40" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">The United States’ excessive involvement in the South China Sea has forced China to deploy more defensive equipment there, and made more and more Chinese people realize the hypocrisy of the United States. Frankly speaking, should there not been the U.S. intervention, China would not have the need to take above-mentioned countermeasures .

The second problem of the United States is its overly ambitious goal. Even now, the United States has not recognized the strategic significance of the changing balance of power in China’s favor. As long as China maintains its current momentum, no matter what the United States does, China will form a relatively balanced strategic posture with the United States in the South China Sea. With the United States declining strength advantage vis-a-vis China, the United States should learn the value of compromise and how to accept China’s legitimate interests; otherwise, the United States will fall into the abyss of endless troubles and anxiety." data-reactid="41" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">The second problem of the United States is its overly ambitious goal. Even now, the United States has not recognized the strategic significance of the changing balance of power in China’s favor. As long as China maintains its current momentum, no matter what the United States does, China will form a relatively balanced strategic posture with the United States in the South China Sea. With the United States declining strength advantage vis-a-vis China, the United States should learn the value of compromise and how to accept China’s legitimate interests; otherwise, the United States will fall into the abyss of endless troubles and anxiety.

Therefore, that China will control the South China Sea is not a serious statement but a rumor and excuse to create panic and pressure on China. In the context of the continuing stability of the South China Sea thanks to the joint efforts of China and ASEAN Member States, it is unwise to stir up rumors and agitate for more U.S. radical measures. After all, the South China Sea is regarded as “the strategic corridor between the Indian and Pacific Oceans,” if the disputes between China and some ASEAN Member States, and Sino-U.S. power competition in the South China Sea are out of control, the whole world, particularly countries in the Asia Pacific, will lose." data-reactid="42" style="margin-bottom: 1em;">Therefore, that China will control the South China Sea is not a serious statement but a rumor and excuse to create panic and pressure on China. In the context of the continuing stability of the South China Sea thanks to the joint efforts of China and ASEAN Member States, it is unwise to stir up rumors and agitate for more U.S. radical measures. After all, the South China Sea is regarded as “the strategic corridor between the Indian and Pacific Oceans,” if the disputes between China and some ASEAN Member States, and Sino-U.S. power competition in the South China Sea are out of control, the whole world, particularly countries in the Asia Pacific, will lose.
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Strategic Analyst

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now noticed:
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Retweeted
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Looks like there's some tension off the coast of Malaysia, at the South Luconia Shoals. China Coast Guard ship 3401 is operating dangerously close to Indonesia-flagged offshore support ship Java Imperia. Apparently trying to disrupt operations. (file photos)

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It would keep the peace if Luconia Shoals were developed by China as a tourist, naval, air, and economic large island. Re-establishing the most Southerly extent of historical Chinese territorial claims. Indonesia could be offered a percent share in the profits to allow Indonesia to feel compensated, to a degree.

Luconia Shoals could be as beautiful as Fiery Cross, Subi or Mischief islands are with commercial flights landing and happy, smiling people enjoying the tropical South China Sea.
 
... Indonesia could be offered a percent share in the profits to allow Indonesia to feel compensated, to a degree.

...
in the middle of Europe I'm guessing Indonesia would "feel compensated, too a degree" if the Chinese dropped their nine-dashed line in
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area!
have you heard of Natuna
Strategic Analyst
? LOL


Indonesia, Long on Sidelines, Starts to Confront China’s Territorial Claims

Sept. 10, 2017
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PiSigma

"the engineer"
in the middle of Europe I'm guessing Indonesia would "feel compensated, too a degree" if the Chinese dropped their nine-dashed line in
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area!
have you heard of Natuna
Strategic Analyst
? LOL


Indonesia, Long on Sidelines, Starts to Confront China’s Territorial Claims

Sept. 10, 2017
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Why should China drop her legitimate historical claims to late comers? Does late comers have greater rights to claim already claimed territory?

All the other countries with conflict with Chinese claims in the SCS either didn't exist or were colonies of other powers who didn't conflict with china's claim when those lines were drawn in 1946.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
in the middle of Europe I'm guessing Indonesia would "feel compensated, too a degree" if the Chinese dropped their nine-dashed line in
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area!
have you heard of Natuna
Strategic Analyst
? LOL


Indonesia, Long on Sidelines, Starts to Confront China’s Territorial Claims

Sept. 10, 2017
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Don't put up too much of your hope on Indonesia . Indonesia is one of the most corrupt and incompetent country in the world I doubt they can even fight tiny Singapore for more than 3 days
Just go to Jakarta from airport to your hotel You will see 3 hour traffic jam then wandered thru street full of beggar and next to smelly river
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
in the middle of Europe I'm guessing Indonesia would "feel compensated, too a degree" if the Chinese dropped their nine-dashed line in
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area!
have you heard of Natuna
Strategic Analyst
? LOL


Indonesia, Long on Sidelines, Starts to Confront China’s Territorial Claims

Sept. 10, 2017
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hmm, strange argument. Let's put down some facts:
  1. Indonesia (and all other claimants) as a unified state did NOT exist until December 1949 when the Netherlands formally relinquished its colonial rule.
  2. China (ROC) laid official claim of SCS (the 11 dashed lines, later 9 dashed) when Jiang Jieshi, the president of ROC, at the request of US regarding the future of Japanese possessions in SCS before Japan's surrender in August 1945.
  3. The Netherlands did not voice any objection, neither any other countries including your government Czechoslovakia.
A non-existence country simply and logically can NOT claim or dispute anything that is already claimed. The same goes with all other claimants.

If we go by your logic, China can claim the land of Czech Republic, and you should support it, will you?o_O I DON'T think you will.

And what does "middle of Europe" even mean here? It is Europe that laid the foundation of State Sovereignty and rule of legal claim which China is following. Are you going to renegade on your "own" rule when dealing with China? Stop using "middle of Europe" because that "Europe" has NO moral or legal ground to lecture anybody except stick to what it has created.:rolleyes:
 

Strategic Analyst

New Member
Registered Member
hmm, strange argument. Let's put down some facts:
  1. Indonesia (and all other claimants) as a unified state did NOT exist until December 1949 when the Netherlands formally relinquished its colonial rule.
  2. China (ROC) laid official claim of SCS (the 11 dashed lines, later 9 dashed) when Jiang Jieshi, the president of ROC, at the request of US regarding the future of Japanese possessions in SCS before Japan's surrender in August 1945.
  3. The Netherlands did not voice any objection, neither any other countries including your government Czechoslovakia.
A non-existence country simply and logically can NOT claim or dispute anything that is already claimed. The same goes with all other claimants.

If we go by your logic, China can claim the land of Czech Republic, and you should support it, will you?o_O I DON'T think you will.

And what does "middle of Europe" even mean here? It is Europe that laid the foundation of State Sovereignty and rule of legal claim which China is following. Are you going to renegade on your "own" rule when dealing with China? Stop using "middle of Europe" because that "Europe" has NO moral or legal ground to lecture anybody except stick to what it has created.:rolleyes:
This is a great re-statement of timeline, territory, sovereignty, and fact. In addition we must remember that in law there is precedent and legacy. Our overall goal is stability. The legal legacy, i.e. the longest surviving documents, do show China has a significant and justified claim to the SCS.

To all ASEAN nations, a strong military, in all ASEAN nations, promotes stability and security. The rule of law, its precedent and legacy, must be recognized for there to be long lasting peace in the region. What I was proposing is that an economic factor can be introduced to China's reclamation of the SCS, so that ASEAN nations can be rewarded and compensated. Of course this will upset the multinational European oil drilling corporations operating in the SCS, but they will have to adjust to the new reality.

The point is not to try to stop history, but to advise one's nation so as to best adapt and adjust in the most nimble manner ahead of time, so as to avoid becoming entrenched, which leads to conflict.
 
Don't put up too much of your hope on Indonesia . ...
Hedrik... Yesterday at 2:47 PM I just reacted to the funny

"Indonesia could be offered a percent share in the profits to allow Indonesia to feel compensated, to a degree."

statement made
#5312 Strategic Analyst, Yesterday at 2:24 PM

#5312 also referred to
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with "the most Southerly extent of historical Chinese territorial claims",
while even
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is more to the south:
Natuna1.jpg


now was thinking to personally draw the nine-dash line in the map above, but thought it'd be too much LOL
 
now noticed the tweet
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China's stance on
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will not waver despite repeated challenges from the US, Defense Ministry spokesperson said on Thur, adding that freedom of navigation in the sea is no problem and negotiations on the Code of Conduct recently achieved a milestone

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