China's SCS Strategy Thread

[AssassinsMace]

And Japan and the US complain about Chinese ships travelling between two Japanese islands in international waters...

 

[Equation]

Because it's all about "do as I say, not what I do" gunboat policy through out the decades after WW2. Thanks goodness that power and status quo is waning. The US is probably doing this just to distract the Filipinos President Duterte snubbing to follow it's ways. Who knows, US foreign policy is getting weirder every year.

 

[tidalwave]

US ship near Trinton and Woody island (major escalation). It wants to draw the other one in,Vietnam now Philippines 's Duerte against US.

If US likes to stir things up, then China should promote the policy of "All men are created Equal, All countries are entitled to nuke weapons"

 

[PanAsian]

Because it's all about "do as I say, not what I do" gunboat policy through out the decades after WW2. Thanks goodness that power and status quo is waning. The US is probably doing this just to distract the Filipinos President Duterte snubbing to follow it's ways. Who knows, US foreign policy is getting weirder every year.

Better if the US stops its threatening behaviors and set a better example for everyone.

 

[Blackstone]

China had declared its "baseline" for the Paracel Islands in 1996 in accordance to UNCLOS and international law. There is no ambiguity on what is or what is not territorial waters. Since the US has not ratified and does not recognize UNCLOS, The US is stating that they are challenging the "excessive maritime claims near the Paracel Islands" BASED on what ??? not UNCLOS but ??? their interpretaion of what should be terrotorial waters???? If US wants to challenge the baseline. It should ratify UNCLOS and make their case according to international law, not through military show of force. At least practice what you preach but the US has always had holier than thou attitude towards international law.

The Senate's refusal to ratify UNCLOS harms the nation's international image, even though all US administrations said they will follow UNCLOS rules. I get that's the very definition of having your cake and eat it too, but until the American people fix the Senate, rival, adversarial, and enemy states will use it to beat us over the head. it is what it is. Nevertheless, successive Presidents have consistently ordered the Pentagon to follow UNCLOS rules, and that is also what it is.

The recent FON operation by USS Decatur was legal (under international law), professional, and without incident. US DDG was escorted by CN ships and didn't sail within 12 mile limit of any land features. My view is the USS Decatur should have also sailed within 3 miles of submerged features, if that could be done safely, and 500 meters of artificial islands to stick home the point freedom of the seas means just that. If you're going to do a job, do it right.

Beijing didn't appreciate the public service reminder, and I appreciate its reasoning too. After all, great power competitions have their own rules and peculiarities with occasional flashes, but hopefully no bangs.

The bottom line is US did nothing illegal under international laws. I say again, US did nothing illegal under international laws. But, and there is always a "but," just because US has the right to conduct FONs under international law, is it always wise to assert that right? Would fewer FONs serve to assert the freedom of the seas for all and not rile up Beijing too much? Reasonable and rational people might agree with that.

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WASHINGTON, Oct. 22 (UPI) -- A U.S. Navy guided-missile destroyer sailed through the South China Sea in a "freedom of navigation" operation, White House officials said.

White House spokesman

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the USS Decatur sailed within the vicinity of the Paracel Islands in order to challenge China's claims in the South China Sea.

"The purpose of this mission was to uphold the rights and freedoms of all states under international law as reflected in the Law of the Sea Convention," Earnest said. "This operation demonstrated that coastal states may not unlawfully restrict the navigation rights, freedoms and lawful uses of the sea that the United States and all states are entitled to exercise under international law."

Earnest said the United States does not consider itself a claimant nor a supporter of other claimants to the land features in the South China Sea, but rather sought to assert disputes over land in the area should be settled through negotiation rather than coercion or military force.

"So that's what our interest is, and that is an interest that we will look for opportunities to convey," he said. "And that essentially is the message that was sent by the operation that was carried out by the USS Decatur last night."

Defense Department spokesman Cmdr.

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said the routine operation, which did not cross the 12-mile territorial limit of any land features, was carried out without incident,

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.

"The United States conducts these routine operations on a regular basis around the world, in full compliance with international law," he said.

The Chinese Defense Ministry released a statement following the operation deeming the act a serious breach of law and an intentional provocation,

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.

Earnest said the operation was not intended to be viewed as "controversial or confrontational" on part of the U.S., but rather "an illustration of our firm commitment to an important principle that serves the interests of countries around the world."

 

[Equation]

The bottom line is US did nothing illegal under international laws. I say again, US did nothing illegal under international laws. But, and there is always a "but," just because US has the right to conduct FONs under international law, is it always wise to assert that right? Would fewer FONs serve to assert the freedom of the seas for all and not rile up Beijing too much? Reasonable and rational people might agree with that.

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But the US did NOTHING good either, reasonable and rational people would suggest the US to go fix their own problems instead of trying to stir up problems in the region for whatever political cheap points they're aiming for.

 

[Blackstone]

Better if the US stops its threatening behaviors and set a better example for everyone.

If Beijing mean the 9-dash line as de facto "blue territory," then he civilized world can't allow it or any other entity to claim sovereign over international waters. That logic should be plain to all rational and reasonable people.

 

[Equation]

If Beijing mean the 9-dash line as de facto "blue territory," then he civilized world can't allow it or any other entity to claim sovereign over international waters. That logic should be plain to all rational and reasonable people.

The "9 dash line" hasn't killed anyone. The US is just using that excuse to perform their gun boat policy through their phony FON ops.

 

[Blackstone]

China had declared its "baseline" for the Paracel Islands in 1996 in accordance to UNCLOS and international law. There is no ambiguity on what is or what is not territorial waters. Since the US has not ratified and does not recognize UNCLOS, The US is stating that they are challenging the "excessive maritime claims near the Paracel Islands" BASED on what ??? not UNCLOS but ??? their interpretaion of what should be terrotorial waters???? If US wants to challenge the baseline. It should ratify UNCLOS and make their case according to international law, not through military show of force. At least practice what you preach but the US has always had holier than thou attitude towards international law.

US challenges any nation that claims it has sovereign control of water ways outside internationally recognized territorial limits. That usually means 12 miles for islands and coasts, 3 miles for land features, and 500 meters for artificial islands. You will note USN spokesman said USS Decatur stayed outside 12 mile limits of all Parcel island land features, and China's Defense Ministry didn't contradict that claim. Therefore we could safely assume it is true. Given that fact, it doesn't matter what "baseline" China established in 2016, 1996, 1066, or even 66 BC, those baseline don't impede freedom of the seas outside internationally recognized sovereign territorial limits.

Quite frankly, I think the US is making a mistake by not sailing (safely) near the 3 mile limit of land features, and near 500 meter of artificial islands. It should do just that, if FON has any real meaning. But, that's just my personal opinion.

 

[Blackstone]

The "9 dash line" hasn't killed anyone. The US is just using that excuse to perform their gun boat policy through their phony FON ops.

You may call it "gunboat diplomacy" all you want, it's your God given right. But, current international laws and norms say it's legal. All else is fluff. So, I call your hot air and I raise it with logic and reason.