Miscellaneous News
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Miragedriver
Brigadier
Hello Kwaigon,
For those of us in parts of the world that are not familiar with what is going on in internal Turkish politics, could you please elaborate?
Is the Turkish military looking to create a militant Islamic State that is pro-western or anti-western?
What do you see as a chain of events?
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Wow, and I thought North Korean propaganda was bad.
Erdogan has a track record of behaving like a mad dog or a headless chicken, often both at the same time.
He has, or seems like he is trying his hardest, to piss off China, Russia, the EU and now the US, and those are just the major powers.
Under him, Turkey has beef with pretty much all its neighbours, and is proactively engaged in some exceptionally dubious and dangerous shady dealings involving terrorists and extremists, with a strong whiff of territorial expansionism thrown in for good measure.
To be honest, I can see why the US might be tempted to want to assassinate him. However, if the US actually tried to act on the impulse, he would be dead and buried by now, with an 'accident' or 'natural causes' the official cause of death and any take over of power would have been done behind the scenes with the vast majority of people none the wiser.
I have no idea what he has to gain or is playing at making (or at least allowing) these groundless, and frankly moronic, insinuations or accusations that they US was behind the coup attempt.
If he really wants it hard enough, I'm sure he could torture some of his captives into confessing American involvement in the coup. But to what end? I just don't see the upshot for Turkey.
And no, getting one old cleric back from America doesn't make sense to justify the costs and risks involved in such an accusation, nor is accusing America of something they didn't do likely to make America particularly inclined to do Turkey this giant solid. If he thinks he can bully or intimidated the US into getting his way, he really doesn't know Americans at all.
What I do find curious is the timing of Ergodan making nice with Russia, and the alleged role Russian intelligence played in foiling the coup.
Somehow I don't take Putin as a forgiving or forgetful sort of bloke, and if he did learn of a legitimate coup attempt on Erdogan, I would have expected him to get a giant bowl of popcorn and the world's biggest glass of vodka and had a merry old time watching Erdogan's body being dragged through the streets and stung up like a piñata.
While it makes zero sense for America to try to remove Ergodan in such a violent and visible coup (and it would be seriously out of character for them to be so sloppy and mess it up so badly if they did try it), it would make a whole lot more sense for Russia to make Erdogan believe that. It would even make sense for them to have helped finance, facilitate or downright engineer a coup attempt while pretending to be the CIA.
If the coup succeeded, they take over a key NATO member. Ultra-win for Putin.
If they failed and Erdogan blamed the Americans, thereby throwing a giant spanner in US efforts to influence the outcome of the Syria war in the short term, and potentially spilting Turkey from NATO in the long run. Still a solid win for Russia.
If they failed and the Turks figure out it was the Russians pulling the strings, 'well that's payback for shooting down our plane, and what exactly are you going to do about it? Yeah, nothing like we thought'. Minor win for Russia and further cementing its reputation as a country you don't want to mess with.
Erdogan has a track record of behaving like a mad dog or a headless chicken, often both at the same time.
He has, or seems like he is trying his hardest, to piss off China, Russia, the EU and now the US, and those are just the major powers.
Under him, Turkey has beef with pretty much all its neighbours, and is proactively engaged in some exceptionally dubious and dangerous shady dealings involving terrorists and extremists, with a strong whiff of territorial expansionism thrown in for good measure.
To be honest, I can see why the US might be tempted to want to assassinate him. However, if the US actually tried to act on the impulse, he would be dead and buried by now, with an 'accident' or 'natural causes' the official cause of death and any take over of power would have been done behind the scenes with the vast majority of people none the wiser.
I have no idea what he has to gain or is playing at making (or at least allowing) these groundless, and frankly moronic, insinuations or accusations that they US was behind the coup attempt.
If he really wants it hard enough, I'm sure he could torture some of his captives into confessing American involvement in the coup. But to what end? I just don't see the upshot for Turkey.
And no, getting one old cleric back from America doesn't make sense to justify the costs and risks involved in such an accusation, nor is accusing America of something they didn't do likely to make America particularly inclined to do Turkey this giant solid. If he thinks he can bully or intimidated the US into getting his way, he really doesn't know Americans at all.
What I do find curious is the timing of Ergodan making nice with Russia, and the alleged role Russian intelligence played in foiling the coup.
Somehow I don't take Putin as a forgiving or forgetful sort of bloke, and if he did learn of a legitimate coup attempt on Erdogan, I would have expected him to get a giant bowl of popcorn and the world's biggest glass of vodka and had a merry old time watching Erdogan's body being dragged through the streets and stung up like a piñata.
While it makes zero sense for America to try to remove Ergodan in such a violent and visible coup (and it would be seriously out of character for them to be so sloppy and mess it up so badly if they did try it), it would make a whole lot more sense for Russia to make Erdogan believe that. It would even make sense for them to have helped finance, facilitate or downright engineer a coup attempt while pretending to be the CIA.
If the coup succeeded, they take over a key NATO member. Ultra-win for Putin.
If they failed and Erdogan blamed the Americans, thereby throwing a giant spanner in US efforts to influence the outcome of the Syria war in the short term, and potentially spilting Turkey from NATO in the long run. Still a solid win for Russia.
If they failed and the Turks figure out it was the Russians pulling the strings, 'well that's payback for shooting down our plane, and what exactly are you going to do about it? Yeah, nothing like we thought'. Minor win for Russia and further cementing its reputation as a country you don't want to mess with.
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AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
It makes sense to take on everyone if you're aiming for the return of the Ottoman Empire to its glory. You have to show that you'll stand up to everyone.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
To simplify, Erdogan is consolidating his power and it's quite obvious he is using this event to power grab and eliminate whatever oppositions he thinks he has in the country.
Kemal Gulen IMHO probably had nothing to do with the coup however since he is seen as erdogan's biggest political rival, he places blame on him and his associates for the coup to rile up nationalistic tendencies and fire up his core base of supporters of his AKP party.
This is nothing new. Erdogan was once the prime minister who actually has political power however after he succeeded that position he ran for the presidency. In turkey, presidency are like monarchy.. More of a symbolic position than atual power however since he became president the has change constitutional laws to grant the president more power.
He is basically the most powerful man inTurkey and Southern Europe now. With the purging of tens of thousands of military commanders, judges, lawyers, professors, teachers etch he has position himself to be a quasi dictator.
Turkish mikitary for the most part has been very pro western and quite secular however Erdogan has been firing, jailing and terminating the military top brass that do not share his views. He is most certainly replacing them with more hard liners and 'pro ISIS' types for sure.
NATO has invested heavily inTurkey because of it's strategic location guarding the Bhospohorus exit etc not to mention guarding NATO's southern flank as well however I guarantee you this power grab will raise a lot of eyebrows within NATO and Turkey's membership longevity.
As of now Turkey is probably still somewhat pro Western however it is definitely moving quickly to the other direction for sure.
Like I said in my earlier post, not just policy wise but even on the societal level. Turkish women have always been very western/euro centered but these days more and more of them are wearing hijab.
Jura The idiot
General
from resounding
Sunday at 4:38 PM
through
Yesterday at 7:05 PM
into
20 minutes ago
let's wait and see the testimony of for example the four-star https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/breaking-world-news-iii-no-discussion.t7090/page-147#post-406279
Sunday at 4:38 PM
through
Yesterday at 7:05 PM
into
20 minutes ago
and beyond
let's wait and see the testimony of for example the four-star https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/breaking-world-news-iii-no-discussion.t7090/page-147#post-406279
kwaigonegin
Colonel
from resounding
Sunday at 4:38 PM
through
Yesterday at 7:05 PM
into
20 minutes ago
and beyond
I'm not sure what's you're getting it Jura. My statements are not contradictory. It could still very well be a false flag. But I do not have the hindsight of a crystal ball so I'm of course speculating based on what I know.
solarz
Brigadier
Yet another police shooting. Fortunately, this time the victim survived.
Make sure you watch the video!
Three cops, at least one of whom is armed with an assault rifle, hiding behind lamp posts against an old man lying on the ground with his hands up, and an autistic man with a toy truck.
Judging from this, the American police force is on the brink of collapse. Officer morale is rock bottom.
Make sure you watch the video!
Three cops, at least one of whom is armed with an assault rifle, hiding behind lamp posts against an old man lying on the ground with his hands up, and an autistic man with a toy truck.
Judging from this, the American police force is on the brink of collapse. Officer morale is rock bottom.
From WaPo:
In short: In Miami North a 47 year old therapeutic assistant tries to retrieve an autistic man who absconded from an assisted living facility and was sitting in the road with a white toy truck when the police came armed with assault rifles (?) and after some time from about 30 feet one policeman shot the 47 year old while he lay on his back with his arms in the air. He shot three times and one bullet hit the right leg. After that they were brave enough to come over and handcuff him. They then waited 20 minutes for fire rescue while the shot man lay bleeding in the sun.
Can you make it out than one policeman was trying to murder with his colleagues aiding and abetting him?
Are some US municipalities so financially stressed that they are unable to pay for competent policemen?
Do view the video.
In short: In Miami North a 47 year old therapeutic assistant tries to retrieve an autistic man who absconded from an assisted living facility and was sitting in the road with a white toy truck when the police came armed with assault rifles (?) and after some time from about 30 feet one policeman shot the 47 year old while he lay on his back with his arms in the air. He shot three times and one bullet hit the right leg. After that they were brave enough to come over and handcuff him. They then waited 20 minutes for fire rescue while the shot man lay bleeding in the sun.
Can you make it out than one policeman was trying to murder with his colleagues aiding and abetting him?
Are some US municipalities so financially stressed that they are unable to pay for competent policemen?
Do view the video.
