Australian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
True. But Australia is pushing for all 12 to be built locally, even if it takes longer. Will the French unions allow it, or will they strike and try to hold DCNS ransom and insist some are built in France?
If I was the boss of DCNS, I will tell the Union "without this contract, you get no job at all, with this contract, at least you get some job". That is very unpleasant and blunt, but it is the reality. Besides, for the sake of Australian navy (to get them sooner) I think Australia is aware that it is better the initial is built in France, or a lot of French personells will be involved meaning French jobs.

This is all my speculation, we will have to wait for the final contract details being released.
 
Tuesday at 2:07 PM
common, open up some Champagne! LOL
and now France Celebrates ‘Historic’ Submarine Win in Australia
France welcomed Australia’s “historic”
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for exclusive negotiations for the Australian $50 billion ($38.7 billion), Future Submarine program, and President François Hollande made a visit to the office of the naval shipbuilder in the French capital.

“This is an historic program, the largest weapons export program our country has ever undertaken,” the Elysée president’s office said in a statement. The selection was possible due to a government-to-government agreement at a "strategic level" of over 50 years.

Australia’s selection opens negotiations for a three-year submarine design contract expected to be concluded at the end of this year or early 2017, a DCNS executive said.

“This decision marks the beginning of a process of exclusive negotiations which should lead to a contract signing in 2017,” said Hélène Masson, senior research fellow at the Fondation de Récherche Stratégique think tank. “France has a strong image of technological and industrial independence, the corner stone of French arms policy over the last 50 years, particularly in submarines.”

DCNS won with its Shortfin Barracuda A1 submarine design, a conventionally-powered derivative of the nuclear-powered Suffren-class submarine now under construction for the French Navy.

Unlike the Suffrens, however, Australia’s submarines will be armed with US weapons and a US combat systems integrator, either Raytheon or Lockheed.

Australia is expected shortly to choose between Raytheon or Lockheed Martin, and DCNS will work the winner of that competition to integrate the combat system into the submarines.

The deal is also a win for Thales, which holds 35 percent of DCNS, with the French government holding the remainder. Thales's share of the program is expected to be some €1 billion, with €100 million per sub based on the sale of sonar systems, electronic warfare and periscopes, a Thales executive said.

DCNS chairman Hervé Guillou welcomed the support from the Direction Générale de l'Armement procurement office, Navy chief of staff Adm. Bernard Rogel, Thales, Sagem, and Schneider Electric, a French energy company with a significant business presence in Australia.

The selection of DCNS reflected the importance of a “close working relationship with industry,” as set out in Australia’s 2016 defense white paper, said Robbin Laird of consultancy ICSA, based in Washington and here. Australia is looking for a long-term, upgradeable system with a large role for local manufacturing.

Defense minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said in a social media message he was with the Australian governor general on April 25, the Anzac day that marks the memory of Australian troops fallen in the battle of the Somme in the First World War.

Hollande’s highly visible visit, with the joint chief of staff, defense, interior and foreign ministers, to the DCNS office marked the political and economic significance of the prospective Australian deal.

While all 12 submarines will be built in Australia, the contract will support some 4,000 jobs for DCNS and its subcontractors, with work at Brest, Cherbourg and Lorient, on the coast of northwest France, a DCNS spokesperson said. The former and latter are in Brittany, where Le Drian is president of the regional council.

Employment is a key factor as France heads toward a general election next year, with a jobless rate stubbornly stuck around 10 percent.
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Some buzz here ofc but waiting signature it is only at that point that a contract becomes sure a Selection is not always completely different.

But if RAAN get 12 SSK, thinking make sense and better RAAN have in more of Perth a 2nd submarine base, possible Sydney but very, too far of deployment area and logicaly the best place is around Darwin for to be more long time in duty/mission with a transit time significantly reduced in this case construction to do.
good points as "Australia has a set of very unique requirements for its submarines—expected to operate in a wide range of environments ranging from the cold Southern Ocean to the tropical Coral, Arafura and Timor Seas. They also need to transit long distances from their base in Australia’s far southwest to their designated patrol areas, which could be as far as the South China Sea and the Northern Pacific." according to (dated October 8, 2015; don't get discouraged by the title :)
Japan Outlines Bid for Australia’s SEA1000 Future Submarine Program
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...

But this price in € 34 Bn seems really enormous new constructions or others things included maybe.
It is really a matter for " the Czech " :):rolleyes:
:) on this occasion I think the money will be invested well: Australia should be able to send anytime a Submarine Squadron, like four units maneuvering against Intruders' ASW defenses so that (at least) one gets into position and kills any mission any Intruders were attempting!
plus I'm guessing the subs will have the land-attack capability:
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here's what Reuters had to say (on Tuesday, sorry I noticed only now):
France beats rival bidders to $40 billion Australian submarine deal
France has beaten Japan and Germany to win a A$50 billion ($40 billion) deal to build a fleet of 12 submarines for Australia, one of the world's most lucrative defense contracts, Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull announced on Tuesday.

The victory for state-owned naval contractor DCNS Group underscored France's strengths in developing a compelling military-industrial bid, and is a blow for Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's push to develop defense export capabilities as part of a more muscular security agenda.

Reuters earlier reported that DCNS would be announced as the winner, citing sources with knowledge of the process.

"The recommendation of our competitive evaluation process ... was unequivocal that the French offer represented the capabilities best able to meet Australia's unique needs," Turnbull told reporters in the South Australian state capital of Adelaide where the submarines will be built.

In a statement, French President Francois Hollande said the deal "marks a decisive step in the strategic partnership between our two countries", while Prime Minister Manuel Valls said it was "cause for optimism and pride."

The French shipbuilder's share of the overall contract will amount to about 8 billion euros ($9.02 billion), according to sources with knowledge of the deal. DCNS chief Hervé Guillou said the deal would create around 4,000 French jobs, benefiting shipyards and industrial sites in Lorient, Brest, Nantes and Cherbourg.

Australia is ramping up defense spending, seeking to protect its strategic and trade interests in Asia-Pacific as the United States and its allies grapple with China's rising power.

Japan's government with its Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (
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) and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (
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) boat had been seen as early frontrunners for the contract, but their inexperience in global defense deals and an initial reluctance to say they would build in Australia saw them slip behind DCNS and Germany's ThyssenKrupp AG (
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).

POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS

Industry watchers had anticipated a decision to come later in the year, but Turnbull's gamble on a July 2 general election sped up the process.

The contract will have an impact on thousands of jobs in the shipbuilding industry in South Australia, where retaining votes in key electorates will be critical for the government's chances of re-election.

"The submarine project .. will see Australian workers building Australian submarines with Australian steel," said Turnbull.

DCNS, which traces its roots to 1624 and is 35 percent-owned by defense electronics giant Thales SA (
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), proposed a diesel-electric version of its 5,000-tonne Barracuda nuclear-powered submarine. DCNS enlisted heads of industry and top government figures to convince Australia of the merits of its offering and the benefits to the broader relationship.

"This is a great opportunity for DCNS because they will work with the Australian navy for the long run as it is a series of contracts and a huge opportunity to invest more and to develop business," French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron said on the sidelines of a trade fair in Hannover, Germany.

Thales shares initially rose more than 3 percent in Paris to a record high.

Japan had offered to build Australia a variant of its 4,000 metric ton Soryu submarine, a deal that would have cemented closer strategic and defense ties with two of Washington's key Asia-Pacific allies, but risked antagonizing China, Australia's top trading partner.

Paul Burton, Defense Industry and Budgets Director at HIS Jane's said it was a surprise from a strategic standpoint that Japan didn’t win. "Japan is very keen to secure a significant piece of overseas business following the relaxation of its export legislation, and this Australian submarine deal was widely regarded as becoming a landmark trade," he said.

"The tradecraft required to convince a sophisticated domestic buyer that Japan's was superior to that offered by France was lacking."

ThyssenKrupp was proposing to scale up its 2,000-tonne Type 214 class submarine, a technical challenge that sources had previously told Reuters weighed against the German bid.

Both losing bidders said they were disappointed by the decision, but remain committed to their Australian businesses.

"Thyssenkrupp will always be willing to further contribute to Australia’s naval capabilities," said Hans Atzpodien, Chairman of Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems.

Japan's Defence Minister Gen. Nakatani said the decision was "deeply regrettable," and he would ask Australia to explain why it didn't pick Japan's design.

America's Raytheon Co (
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), which built the system for Australia's ageing Collins-class submarines, is vying for a separate combat system contract with Lockheed Martin Corp (
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), which supplies combat systems to the U.S. Navy's submarine fleet. A decision on the weapons system is due later this year.
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Mr T

Senior Member
If I was the boss of DCNS, I will tell the Union "without this contract, you get no job at all, with this contract, at least you get some job".

French unions are far too militant to accept that sort of argument. And I don't think DCNS is in such a bad situation that there are going to be mass layoffs if the Australian deal doesn't go ahead.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
French unions are far too militant to accept that sort of argument. And I don't think DCNS is in such a bad situation that there are going to be mass layoffs if the Australian deal doesn't go ahead.
I was not really proposing those words as I said "too blunt". I was using that saying to present the reality. Neither was I suggesting that DCNS is in a bad situation. My point was that "building most subs in Australia" does not make any worse to the French workers, but having such contract will do at least something good to them.

I am sure DCNS boss will speak diplomatically with sweat words, but the essence of those words is the same as I said.
 
here's what Reuters had to say (on Tuesday, sorry I noticed only now):
France beats rival bidders to $40 billion Australian submarine deal

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Reuters again, yesterday:
How France sank Japan's $40 billion Australian submarine dream
In 2014, a blossoming friendship between Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott and his Japanese counterpart Shinzo Abe looked to have all but sewn up a $40 billion submarine deal. Then French naval contractor DCNS hatched a bold and seemingly hopeless plan to gatecrash the party.

Almost 18 months later, France this week secured a remarkable come-from-behind victory on one of the world's most lucrative defense deals. The result: Tokyo's dream of fast-tracking a revival of its arms export industry is left in disarray.

Interviews with more than a dozen Japanese, French, Australian and German government and industry officials show how a series of missteps by a disparate Japanese group of ministry officials, corporate executives and diplomats badly undermined their bid.

In particular, Japan misread the changing political landscape in Australia as Abbott fell from favor. The Japanese group, which included Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) (
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) and Kawasaki Heavy Industries (KHI), (
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) also failed to clearly commit to providing skilled shipbuilding jobs in Australia. And Tokyo realized far too late its bid was being outflanked by the Germans and particularly the French, the sources involved in the bid said.

France, on the other hand, mobilized its vast and experienced military-industrial complex and hired a powerful Australian submarine industry insider, Sean Costello, who led it to an unexpected victory.

Japan's loss represents a major setback for Abe's push to develop an arms export industry as part of a more muscular security agenda after decades of pacifism.

"We put our utmost effort into the bid," the head of the Ministry of Defense's procurement agency Hideaki Watanabe said after the result was announced on Tuesday. "We will do a thorough analysis of what impact the result will have on our defense industry."

By the end of 2014, Japan was still comfortably in the driving seat thanks to the relationship between Abe and Abbott, which had begun soon after Abbott's 2013 election and strengthened quickly.

Japan and Australia - key allies of the United States - had wanted to cement security ties to counter to China's growing assertiveness in the South China Sea and beyond.

FRENCH OVERTURES

Still, France saw an opportunity to get into the game. In November 2014, DCNS CEO Herve Guillou prevailed on French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian to visit Australia and start the pitch for France.

Le Drian traveled to Albany in the country's remote southwest, where officials had gathered to commemorate the 100 year anniversary of the first sailing of Australian soldiers to fight on France's Western Front during World War One.

The poignant shared history opened the door to discussions about the submarine contract, a source close to the French Ministry of Defense told Reuters.

"The French minister wished to be there for this important event. There, he held talks with his Australian counterpart David Johnston and with ... Abbott," said the source, who along with other officials asked not to be identified because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

FIGHTING FOR JOBS

Soon after, however, Australia's political instability would erode Japan's advantage with the old guard.

In December 2014, Johnston, the Australian defense minister, was forced to resign after disparaging the skills of Australian shipbuilders.

South Australian lawmakers, worried that Abbott had quietly agreed to Japan supplying the new submarines, insisted the government look at options to build them in their state. They pressured the prime minister into holding a competitive tender which DCNS and Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (
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) quickly joined.

In February 2015, Abbott called his "best friend in Asia", as he had previously described Abe, to tell him about the new bidding process. Abe sympathized and said he would do his best to comply, two sources with knowledge of the conversation said.

Yet, convinced the deal was still in the bag, Japan's bidding group dithered.

"Even though we were in the competition we acted as though nothing had changed," said one Japanese government source involved in the bid. "We thought we had already won, so why do anything to rock the boat?"

The Japanese did not attend a conference for the Future Submarines project in March, failing to understand the importance of the crucial lobbying event and leaving the field to their German and French rivals, sources within the Japanese bid said.

Japan's belated attempt to engage with potential local suppliers at a follow up event in August 2015 went badly.

Companies complained Tokyo was unwilling to discuss substantive deals. Having only ever sold arms to Japan's military because of a decades-old ban on exports that Abe lifted in 2014, neither Japanese company had any Australian military industrial partners.

And unlike France and Germany which quickly committed to building the submarines in Australia, Japan initially only said it would follow the bidding rules, which required building in Australia as just one of three options.

"The Japanese had been invited in on a handshake deal and were left trying to compete in an international competition having no experience in doing such a thing," an Australian defense industry source said.

By September 2015, Japan's key ally Abbott had been deposed by Malcolm Turnbull, blowing the competition wide open.

LOCAL EXPERTS

Industry officials said all of the sub offerings had some drawbacks, meaning other factors including experience and connections came into play.

Crucially, in April 2015, DCNS hired Costello, who had earlier that year lost his job as chief of staff of Australia's Defence Ministry in the wake of Johnston's resignation.

A former navy submariner who had also been the general manager for strategy at state-run Australian submarine firm ASC, Costello was ideally placed to lead a bid.

Had the Japanese called first, Costello would have likely have accepted an offer to head their bid, according to a source who knows Costello. "They didn’t pick up the phone," he said. Costello declined to speak publicly about the bid.

Costello's team drew up a list of a dozen tasks DCNS needed to complete to win the deal, including the critical job of winning over U.S. defense companies Lockheed Martin Corp (
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) and Raytheon Co (
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), one of which will eventually build the submarine's combat system.

In a final coordinated push, a huge delegation of French government and business leaders visited Australia a month ago, touting the economic benefits of their bid.

LATE JAPANESE PUSH

Finally stung to action, Japan ramped up its campaign in September 2015. Senior defense bureaucrat Masaki Ishikawa stepped in to unite what had until then been a disjointed approach spread around various ministries, the Japanese ambassador in Canberra, Sumio Kusaka, and MHI.

Japan began talking about investment and development opportunities beyond defense, including the possibility of opening a lithium-ion battery plant in Australia, while MHI opened an Australia unit.

In a last ditch attempt to woo Australia, Japan sent one of its Soryu submarines to Sydney this month. But as it sailed home on Tuesday, Turnbull announced the deal had gone to DCNS.

In an echo of his first Albany trip, Le Drian heard of France's win on Monday as he attended an ANZAC Day service for Australia's war dead in northwestern France.

For Tokyo, another big international defense competition that could help Japan develop the arms export industry that Abe envisaged is unlikely any time soon.

A more likely tack will be joint development projects with overseas partners to embed Japanese companies in military industrial supply chains. That might even include components for Australia's French submarines, one source in Tokyo said.

Other Japanese officials still want Australia to explain why they lost so they can learn from the painful and bewildering experience.

"We thought up to the end that we could have won," another source in Japan said.
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