Aircraft Carriers III

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. TerraN_EmpirE
    Offline

    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,034
    Likes Received:
    10,378
    Agreed. The only reason to operate close to the shore is the range of landing craft. That means a well deck or landing ramp. QE class lacks either. She take the Expeditionary force ashore by air not boat or Amphibious vehicle.
    The Royal Marines operate as a raiding force as opposed to the USMC who operates as a landing force. Royal Marines are commandos. Small actions.
     
  2. Brumby
    Offline

    Brumby Major

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    3,482
    With the advent of mobile long range stand off weapons and their proliferation even to low end adversaries, ship to shore connectors are increasing outranged. Vertical lift capacity and possibility of attrition would severely restrict scope of operations and the risk imposed on such valuable assets. I doubt we will ever see any sufficiently scaled amphibious assault going forward.
     
    Air Force Brat likes this.
  3. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    22,007
    Likes Received:
    27,027
    Sep 12, 2016
    [linked https://www.scribd.com/document/323337141/RIAT-2016-briefing-on-QE-class-and-CEPP-plans#from_embed which is still available]
     
  4. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    22,007
    Likes Received:
    27,027
    plus wondering what this "outfit" is going to achieve:
    [​IMG]
    it's from Yesterday at 8:28 PM
     
  5. Brumby
    Offline

    Brumby Major

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3,317
    Likes Received:
    3,482
    The new Commandant of the USMC has conceded that the old ways of amphibious assault is no longer a practical solution because of long range precision strike and the risks to the major assets.

    https://breakingdefense.com/2019/07/sacred-cows-die-as-marine-commandant-changes-course-on-amphibs/
     
  6. TerraN_EmpirE
    Offline

    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,034
    Likes Received:
    10,378
    I am well aware of what he said. And he is correct. Landing ships like LST and LHA face a huge issue as do Carriers.
    A Helicopter like a Merlin or Chinook have a set range off the deck of a flat top. That range demands getting closer to shore to deploy assets like Infantry.
    A F35B like that on the QE class or America class have a limited range of operations.
    But both have far longer range than armored Amphibious platforms like the ACV. Those can only swim a dozen miles.

    The Problem for the lighter weight force is although they have a longer range to come across the waters by boats or Helicopters. What do they do on the ground once ashore? They can only bring what they can carry. A CH53K is a big aircraft but it can’t carry an M1A1 Abrams MBT. It can’t carry an ACV or anything that might be able to actually fight. All they can bring are light Jeep type vehicles with mortars and many be light Anti tank weapons.

    In the Falklands war the British lucked out. All Argentina had on the ground was at best reservists of light infantry with very light armor in fact what the British faced was exactly their equal in equipment. The Royal Marines SAS and Airborne units had the better training and took the day. But that’s not likely to be the case for the USMC.
    Foot infantry vs even the light weight Amphibious armor types is not a good day.
    Foot vs Mech. Mech wins unless you are dealing with absolute incompetence <See Middle East>. Potential adversaries of the USMC know this.
    Platforms like Osprey extend the range of air landings but all they can deploy is light infantry like the RMC whom are only really useful for trying to seize or disable assets short term but a well built enemy can isolate and bleed them out. Think back to the Rangers in Mogadishu. Isolated with limited assistance out numbered out gunned taking casualties.
    Eventually you need that heavy wave to move ashore to bring the heavy weapons in to relieve the light forces to bring the heavy guns to take out enemy armor and tanks.
    but that is exactly what the systems you mention aim to prevent. What seems to be happening in the MC is they are looking for ways to push back those assets.
    For example using those raiding forces, AA and Long range fires to neuter the air space and sea denial assets.
     
  7. Intrepid
    Offline

    Intrepid Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,626
    Likes Received:
    1,762
    Modern warfare does not know soldiers who are facing each other on a front line. Modern war takes place in the midst of uninvolved third parties, with no clear fronts and without the distinction of warriors from civilians.

    An LHD between tankers and cruise liners is not an easy target.
     
  8. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    22,007
    Likes Received:
    27,027
    May 28, 2019
    now
    Inhofe Takes Aim at Ford-Carrier Program Failures; CNO Nominee Gilday Promises Navy Will Do Better https://news.usni.org/2019/07/31/in...o-nominee-gilday-promises-navy-will-do-better
     
  9. Obi Wan Russell
    Offline

    Obi Wan Russell Jedi Master
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,702
    Likes Received:
    2,166
    Another article from a friend about the Wildcat's teeth:

    WILDCAT HMA2 HAS ITS "WINGS" TESTED!

    Leonardo Helicopters at Yeovil, Somerset have been flight testing the Wildcat HMA2's "wings" this week - the wings of course, while certainly having an aerodynamic bonus, are principally to be used as this naval attack helicopter's weapon mounting stations. Such tests will of course not only involve aerodynamic and stress testing but also weapons firing under a range of conditions to ensure such can be safely and effectively used within the normal Wildcat flight envelope.

    The 2 weapons under carriage test on the new mounting wings are Sea Venom and Martlet - the UK's new medium anti-ship missile (replacing Sea Skua), and light weight attack missile respectively. Both are state of the art and will provide the shipborne version of the Wildcat with a very effective and versatile punch in a range of circumstances and differing target types including overland for the Martlet.

    Both missiles types and their clearance on the HMA2 are programmed for operational availability during 2020. While Wildcat will operate principally from the RN's surface combat fleet these will often be used in escort to the QE class. The Wildcat will also operate off the new QE carriers too with such weapons. The first comment shows the flight global link to the Flight Test activity.

    A variant of Martlet has also recently been tested as an additional side mount of 5 missiles on the standard 30mm auto-canons as fitted to the RN surface combat fleet and the QE class.

    Both missiles types and their clearance on the HMA2 are programmed for operational availability during 2020. While Wildcat will operate principally from the RN's surface combat fleet these will often be used in escort to the QE class. The Wildcat HMA2 armed with 10 Martlet and 4 Sea Venom ASMs - reflecting the much greater payload capability of the Wildcat compared with its Lynx predecessor. 67439481_10156251220291481_1347893851406204928_n.jpg 46503275_10156509811071355_2256861166355611648_n.jpg AIR_Future_Lynx_Concept_Naval_lg.jpg
     
    TerraN_EmpirE and derf1600 like this.
  10. Jura
    Offline

    Jura General

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    22,007
    Likes Received:
    27,027
    Warhead 30 kg (66 lb)
    Speed High-subsonic
    according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Venom_(missile)
    = "punch" roughly of a 5" shell (you may nitpick about modern explosives or whatever LOL)
     
Loading...

Share This Page