Aircraft Carriers III

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Good :) but confirm thermal coating only for these 6 spots, worck with 10 % of the flight deck don' t need protected the runway for short takeoff.

And justely :) i have read F-35B is unable to takeoff veticaly with weapons load thinking even only internal able only vertical landing with weapons load, limited ?

Some ideas for this important matter also for land operations... ?
Both the US and the UK will rarely (if ever) use Vertical take-off, particularly for any missions.

The US will roll down the LHD/LHA deck and take off the end of a non-ski-jump deck, using partial vertical thrust to maximize their lift based on the load they carry...both fuel and ordinance. And they will have that down pat.

The UK will do the same over the QE Class Ski-Jump, and with the ski-jump assist, will be able to perhaps be more optimized at it.
 

SouthernSky

Junior Member
Yes it was, and enjoy your very "Astute" observations on Naval matters in general and Carriers in particular, you have built a very substantial following here with your "reportage" on the "QE and Prince of Whales", we are all waiting anxiously for your further reports of her progress. It will indeed be exciting as we await her full outfitting and sea trials, and more importantly the "arrival of her first Air Wing of F-35Bs", now that will be a day.

Perhaps my smiley face denoting a little humour was less obvious?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I see one aircraft carrier and 2 wanna be's and one \
The only true carrier there is the Stennis.

But the America WILL carry fixed wing aircraft, and sometimes in a sea-control mode, with up to 20 F-35Bs, I would call it a carrier in that case.

The Hyuga will carry V-22s, and the Canberra will definitely carry V-22s too IMHO.

And who knows...if they keep that ski-jump, and the prices continue to drop on the F-35B...well...who knows what the future may hold for the Canberra?
 
now I read Navy, Marines put V-22 to the Test in Carrier Experiment
Ten days into a two-week fleet battle experiment on this aircraft carrier off the California coast, the Navy is getting a good look at how the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor can fit into flight and deck operations of its carrier fleet. So far, the outlook is promising.

The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
as the carrier onboard delivery aircraft, doing the COD logistics mission of hauling cargo, mail and passengers between aircraft carriers and beach detachments ashore. After that decision in January 2015, the Navy approved an engineering change for a naval variant of the V-22, and this year is working with the Marine Corps as it supports Osprey operations this summer for the fleet battle experiment (FBE).

The Marine Corps is flying four MV-22B aircraft aboard USS Carl Vinson since the experiment began July 22. Three of the Ospreys belong to Marine Helicopter Squadron 1 from Quantico, Va., and the fourth belongs to Marine Operational Test and Evaluation Squadron 1 (VMX-1) from Yuma Marine Corps Air Station, Ariz.]

This initial “proof of concept” will begin to show how to employ the Osprey, which blends rotary and fixed-wing flight, and see how it affects cycles of launch and recovery operations and overall deck handling on a carrier, officials said. “This is an opportunity to go out and see how this is going to do,” said Vice Adm. Mike Shoemaker, Naval Air Forces commander, speaking with a group of reporters Tuesday before boarding an HMX-1 Osprey for the flight to the Carl Vinson conducting training in the offshore ranges.

So far, it seems, initial tests don’t reveal any glaring problems that time and experience couldn’t smooth out. “I think it’s going very well,” Shoemaker said. Some worries about downwash from the Osprey’s beefy rotors haven’t materialized, perhaps in part from more handling and simple adjustments with pilots moving the nacelles to ease the heat and deflect the exhaust on the flight deck surface. He said the downwash is “comparable” to that of the MH-53 helicopter.

One good thing: Landing and launching an Osprey, which can land and take off vertically like a helicopter, lightens the deck crew load since it requires no wire trap and isn’t catapulted off the deck. Plus, it isn’t limited to just flying during fixed-wing operations. Only five personnel are needed on deck, several Carl Vinson officers told a group of reporters Tuesday, far fewer than the 30 to 50 hands usually on position when the Greyhound is operating on deck.

A concern: Turnaround time to unload or load the Osprey might take longer than the Greyhound, potentially cutting into the deck cycling window between flight operations. That’s because deck crews would offload and load the Osprey while it’s still in the landing and launching spot — spots 6 at the “waist” or 9 by the fantail — rather than outside the landing area where the Greyhound and cargo go when being moved or pre-staged for delivery. Both spots will require different approaches to safely move cargo and passengers.

“It becomes how fast can you offload the Ospreys to get fuel and put the people back on so it can be off the flight deck, and then I’ll deal with the rest,” said Lt. Cmdr. Reynaldo Stanley, the flight deck handler. “The impact is on deck time.” In flight deck control, Stanley briefly described deck operations using a “ouija” board, with silhouette cutouts of each aircraft scaled to the flight deck to help track and position aircraft. He had no cutouts of the Osprey but used those of the now-defunct H-46 Sea Knight tandem-rotor helicopter.

“The C-2 is a big plane… It takes a lot of real estate in the parking area,” Stanley said. “The Osprey takes up a lot of real estate in the landing area.” The V-22 and C-2 have similar-sized footprints (one’s width is roughly the other’s wingspan) when operational so they take up similar space. The V-22 lands but can’t taxi and park with its wings folded like the Greyhound since its engines are shut down when it’s folded up. “When the C-2 lands, the intent is to park,” and then offload, reload and refuel before taxiing for another flight, he said, but most Osprey flights will entail landing and offload followed by any reloading and subsequent takeoff.

Vinson’s flight deck crew got their first familiarization with the Osprey in June when Marines brought several Ospreys for a sea trial of sorts. So far, “I think it’s gone pretty smoothly. But nothing’s happened, that is the key,” Stanley said.

“The most difficult thing we have is the aircraft would be on deck a little bit longer than was expected, which would eat up into the launching of the aircraft,” he said. “The longer it takes to take off, then the longer it takes for us to actually set up for cats (and fixed-wing flight ops) if we’re stuck up here and can’t launch” if the Osprey is on spot 6.

Navy officials cautioned that the experiment is starting to sort out and determine the Osprey’s operations and deck procedures in doing the COD mission. As of Tuesday morning, the carrier had handled 23 flights that moved 598 people and 33,000 pounds of cargo, said Cmdr. Clarke “Cosmo” Cramer, the fleet introduction team leader. The Center for Naval Analyses is collecting data from flight and deck operations during the experiment, including the timing between flight ops cycles andimpacts on moving cargo and passengers.

Cmdr. Lucas Kadar, Vinson’s Air Boss, said the Osprey “brings us flexibility and options. It’s easier from a flight deck point of view to operate with the MV-22… We don’t have to go into fixed-wing flight ops.” It provides more options, Kadar said, and has the “best of both worlds” since it can conduct flight missions faster than helicopters but also land or launch regardless of the flight deck status and also between launches and recoveries.

A short utility assessment conducted aboard USS Harry S. Truman in 2013 gave the service an initial look at whether the Osprey might fulfill the COD mission when the C-2A is retired. “Our C-2 community is like the masters of global logistics,” Shoemaker said, with detachments supporting ships and ashore units.

“What we’re trying to do is help inform the future,” Shoemaker added. That includes determining “how will we employ this airplane, maybe differently or similar to the C-2.” The Navy hasn’t yet tested flying the Osprey to smaller ships like destroyers or cruisers, although the V-22 could hover over ships’ flight decks. “We are just kind of scratching the surface in how we’ll use this platform,” he said.

Another difference is that unlike the C-2A, the Navy would use the Osprey to carry cargo at night. The V-22B carries a bit less internal cargo than the Greyhound, but it can lift more and haul cargo by sling load. The Osprey has three fewer seats available, 23 compared to 26 in the Greyhound. The C-2A can fly higher, above bad weather, with its pressurized cockpit that the Osprey lacks.

“I think it’s still a very good fit for the mission,” Shoemaker said of the Osprey.

The Navy is looking at how to make cargo handling more efficient, officials said, with specialized metal bins, the Joint Modular Intermodal Container (JMIC), that can be rolled onto the Osprey and also corrugated cardboard boxes and palletized cargo that can shorten the turnaround time. The C-2A has a cage that contains loose items, but containers on the V-22 will allow pre-staging of cargo rather than sailors packing it in “hand over hand, stacking it in where they can,” said Lt. Cmdr. Matthew Miller[cqgf], Vinson’s principal assistant for logistics.

The testing, done closely with VMX-1, is led by a fleet introduction team from Point Mugu, Calif.-based Airborne Command, Control and Logistics Wing, which manages the C-2 and E-2 fleet. Between October and February, the first group of 77 C-2 pilots, aircrewmen and maintainers will get training with the V-22B and will “start flying the airplane,” said Capt. Val Overstreet, the wing commodore and veteran E-2 pilot. “We are really excited about that.” They will provide the first training cadre and become instructors for follow-on crews at New River Marine Corps Air Station, N.C. They will be followed by helicopter pilots who plan to transition to the V-22, she said.

Shoemaker said the Navy expects to reach initial operational capability (IOC) in fiscal 2021, with the first detachment deployed during 2022. “We’ll do it very similar to how we are set up now with the C-2 community,” he said, with east and west coast-based squadrons providing V-22 dets to carriers. He said he thinks the Navy might, at some point, stand up its own V-22 training squadron.

The Navy’s version of the Marine Corps’ newest rotary-wing aircraft would be designated CMV-22. It would mirror the aircraft that the Marines fly but will include extended range fuel tanks, high frequency radio and a public-address system. Unlike the COD it’s replacing, the Navy’s Osprey variant potentially could operate off other gray hulls.
source:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
And who knows...if they keep that ski-jump, and the prices continue to drop on the F-35B...well...who knows what the future may hold for the Canberra?
An assumption...saying a flight of 6 F-35B aboard so about 4 spots with thermal coating it is expensive ?
They have yet the ski jump.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
An assumption...saying a flight of 6 F-35B aboard so about 4 spots with thermal coating it is expensive ?
They have yet the ski jump.

If they embarked 6 aircraft, they would only need a large landing area or two, for the vertical recovery, the launch is always going to be a short rolling take-off with only a momentary deflection downward at full thrust, if they use the ramp that's a no sweat deal. We have no ramps, and have no problems with the rolling departure.

So the only real heat will be on the vertical recovery, and the throttle will be at a reduced setting as the aircraft will be light on fuel and payload, so not nearly as much heat as a launch would generate!
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
The only true carrier there is the Stennis.

Amen!...

The most powerful surface warship on this planet....Nimitz-class aircraft carrier.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

PACIFIC OCEAN (Aug. 1, 2016) The Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) receives stores while conducting a vertical replenishment at sea, during Rim of the Pacific 2016. Twenty-six nations, more than 40 ships and submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel are participating in RIMPAC from June 30 to Aug. 4, in and around the Hawaiian Islands and Southern California. The world's largest international maritime exercise, RIMPAC provides a unique training opportunity that helps participants foster and sustain the cooperative relationships that are critical to ensuring the safety of sea lanes and security on the world's oceans. RIMPAC 2016 is the 25th exercise in the series that began in 1971. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Ryan J. Batchelder/Released)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

ATLANTIC OCEAN (March 24, 2016) The aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69), the flagship of the Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group, transits the Atlantic Ocean. Ike is underway conducting a Composite Training Unit Exercise (COMPTUEX) with the Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group in preparation for a future deployment. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist First Class Rafael Martie/Released)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

GULF OF OMAN (Dec. 25, 2015) The aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) transits the Gulf of Oman. The Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group is deployed in support of maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class J. M. Tolbert/Released)

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

PHILIPPINE SEA (Nov. 15, 2015) The U.S. Navy's only forward-deployed aircraft carrier USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) transits the Philippine Sea. Ronald Reagan and its embarked air wing, Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 5, provide a combat-ready force that protects and defends the collective maritime interests of the U.S. and its allies and partners in the Indo-Asia-Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Nathan Burke/Released)
 
Top