Chinese Aviation Industry

lcloo

lcloo

Captain
I think if C939 turn up to be larger aircraft than C929, many of these would be freighter variant, though passenger variant would still be more numerous than the cargo planes variant.

Since C939 is presumely still in concept fesibility study stage, it's final design could be very different from our vision of current planeform of a cylindrical fuselage with wings attached. It may take 15 to 20 years to materialise and if Chinese aircraft designers become bold in their ideas, we might see a subsonic flying wing body or a supersonic passenger aircraft with the designation of C939 attached to it.

As for whether there is a demand for such a niche aircraft, that will depnds on what the World economy will be in 15 to 20 years (year 2039 to 2044). If South Africa, Brazil and other countries located at the far side of the World becomes richer economically then they might need direct flights to and from China. And if political relationship between China and US, and also the West becomes warmer 20 years from now, a large aircraft type would be in demand.

And a feasibility study does not mean it will progress into a real commercial product. Nevertheless making a feasibility study will benefit COMAC. And having making some R&D in advance, COMAC would not miss the train if the opportonity arise, plus some of the R&D for the supposely C939 may also be apply for latest C919 and C929 variants.
 
sunnymaxi

sunnymaxi

Captain
Registered Member
A330-200 base variant

length - 58.82 m
MTOW - 242 tons

A330-300

length - 63 m
MTOW - 242 tons
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A350-900

length - 66.8 m
MTOW - 283 tons

A350-100

length - 73.79 m
MTOW - 322 tons
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C929-600

length - 65 m
MTOW - 250 tons

as you see, C929 is better than A330 in basic specification. and aircraft designed/produced in 2020's decade. so material/tech and aerodynamically better design..

001sJxoygy1hj9seuri44j63402c0kjl02.jpg

This will be the base variant of C929-600.. just like other models, C929 will also expand into different models. i have heard, COMAC planning to produce this aircraft in three different scale. large variant of C929 could reach to A350-900 level in terms of MTOW.
 
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pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
gelgoog said:
That all sounds reasonable. Except this is China you are talking about. One of the highest population countries on Earth.
So I am fairly sure a large jet would still be in demand.
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This would be true, if HSR didn't exist and if like 90% of airspace wasn't controlled by the military. Delays are frequent on domestic flights and even more frequent on international flights. Once my flight got delayed by 11 HOURS. Bruhhh..
 
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tacoburger

Junior Member
Registered Member
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China expects to make progress on an advanced aeroplane engine, a bigger commercial jet, and an amphibious search-and-rescue aircraft under a government plan to upgrade production equipment across industries through 2027 and improve the economy.

A notice from seven central government departments calls for “promoting the aviation industry to comprehensively develop final assembly-integration capabilities and supply-chain-supporting capabilities for a large aircraft, a large amphibious aircraft, and an engine”.The March 27 notice calls for “updates and upgrades of high-end, advanced equipment” to reach those goals.
China is working on its first home-grown turbofan commercial aircraft engine, the CJ1000, to reduce reliance on imports. The CJ1000’s developer, the Aero Engine Corporation of China, had expected to receive an airworthiness certification by 2025, but research reports have indicated that mechanical setbacks and a lack of experience in testing and assembly have held back development.

“China definitely feels the urgency to develop its own aircraft engines,” said Liang Yan, chair of economics at US-based Willamette University, pointing to efforts by former US president Donald Trump to block exports of an American engine type to China.“With the new industrial policy and plan to boost new productive forces, I think various advanced manufacturing will accelerate and help aircraft,” Liang said. The C919 narrowbody airliner developed by the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac) still depends on foreign components, including for its engine produced by a joint venture between GE Aerospace of the US and France’s Safran Aircraft Engines.
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The C919 is China’s first domestically produced narrowbody commercial airliner, in a league with the Airbus 320 and Boeing 737 aircraft families. Chinese airlines currently get most of their larger planes from Airbus and Boeing.
Equipment upgrades targeted by Beijing cover factory tools, farming equipment, the photovoltaic energy sector, the production of electric vehicles, and aviation.Chinese leaders are trying to guide the world’s second-largest economy toward a stronger post-pandemic recovery and increased self-sufficiency in the face of US curbs on trade and technology.
“A ‘made-in-China’ CJ1000 engine would improve prospects for Comac – not immediately, but in the near-term – reflecting the progress that’s been made, especially in terms of safety,” said Shukor Yusof, founder of Singapore-based aviation consultancy Endau Analytics.

The government document said equipment upgrades are also linked to improving the AG600, the world’s largest amphibious plane.
China began work on the AG600 in 2014 to meet growing demand for an emergency rescue aircraft that can fight forest fires and aid in maritime searches. The developer, China Aviation Industry General Aircraft (AVIC), conducted maiden flights over land in 2017 and at sea in 2020, followed by the start of airworthiness tests this year, according to Chinese state media outlets. Technological setbacks had pushed back the plane’s development in recent years.To give China a commercial airliner bigger than the C919, Comac has reached a 175-million-yuan (US$24.2 million) agreement with Hunan Aerospace Huanyu Communication Technology to build metals, composites and components for its widebody C929 passenger jet, according to a stock market filing.
Comac expects to begin C929 deliveries in 2027, a company official said at an event in Shanghai last month.
Overseas sceptics of the C919 have said the aircraft relies too heavily on foreign-made parts, but those parts may also help the aircraft pass safety tests outside China, where it has garnered few sales.“The fact that it’s using Western engines that are used in other aircraft makes it easier,” said Brendan Sobie, founder of the Singapore-based consultancy Sobie Aviation. Across industries, investment in industrial equipment upgrades will grow by more than 25 per cent by 2027 compared with 2023, the government statement said. The penetration rate of digital research, development, and design tools would increase by 90 per cent, it said.
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Chinese officials aim to reach their 2027 goals in part by establishing special loans for technological innovation and equipment renewal, the government statement said. It added that local governments should “strengthen protection of essential resources” such as land and energy to support upgrades.
“Promoting large-scale equipment upgrades in industrial fields is conducive to expanding effective investment and promoting the continuous increase in the proportion of advanced production capacity,” the government document said.
Scientific and technological advances across industries to date will help China’s economy grow by about 5.3 per cent this year, despite the nation’s rapidly ageing workforce, according to Hoe Ee Khor, chief economist with the ASEAN+3 Macroeconomic Research Office. He pointed to previous gains in agricultural technology, factory automation and e-commerce technology.
“That’s going to increase the productivity growth of the Chinese economy, and that happens at a time when the population is ageing,” Khor said at a news conference on Monday.
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vincent

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
sunnymaxi said:
A330-200 base variant

length - 58.82 m
MTOW - 242 tons

A330-300

length - 63 m
MTOW - 242 tons
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The A330ceo (-200 and-300) were developed in the 1980s and the early-1990s, i.e. older technologies.

Using the A330neo (-800 and -900) for comparison/reference would be more suitable, as they were developed in the late-2000s and early-2010s. Both the -800 and -900 variants have an MTOW of 251 tons.
 
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Michael90

Junior Member
Registered Member
pevade said:
This would be true, if HSR didn't exist and if like 90% of airspace wasn't controlled by the military. Delays are frequent on domestic flights and even more frequent on international flights. Once my flight got delayed by 11 HOURS. Bruhhh..
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That's crazy, 11 hours delay?
Hope they compensated you guys?
Moreover you said its also because the Chinese military controls 90% of China's airspace? I never knew that. How do they expect the country's civil aviation industry to grow properly and match that of the US/West? I don't see a reason the military has to control so much of the country's airspace. That has to change ASAP so as not to choke the country's budding civil aviation industry. However, i dont think that will change anytime soon though. Since this must have been going on for a long time and changing old habits is quite difficult and also some special interests groups who have grown used to the status quo?
 
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pevade

Junior Member
Registered Member
Michael90 said:
That's crazy, 11 hours delay?
Hope they compensated you guys?
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Lmao no this was like 7 years ago. It was an international flight to China.
Michael90 said:
Moreover you said its also because the Chinese military controls 90% of China's airspace? I never knew that. How do they expect the country's civil aviation industry to grow properly and match that of the US/West?
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They dont want aircraft to be the primary mode of medium range transport. From a geopolitical perspective this makes sense. You dont wanna rely on the Americans or the Europeans not banning servicing and repair parts for your aircraft and paralyzing a large amount of passenger traffic. (See Russia).

Things have gotten a lot better, delays have reduced a lot for domestic and international travel. I still managed to get unlucky on my final hop to my destination in Sichuan because there was a massive blizzard at the destination which cancelled my flight. At least they gave me a room at a 5 star hotel which was nice.
Michael90 said:
I don't see a reason the military has to control so much of the country's airspace. That has to change ASAP so as not to choke the country's budding civil aviation industry. However, i dont think that will change anytime soon though. Since this must have been going on for a long time and changing old habits is quite difficult and also some special interests groups who have grown used to the status quo?
Click to expand...
See above
 
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