Z-20

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by delft, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    I think that's an AW101 model...

    Everything looks the same as the merlin, down to the aft circular window

    [​IMG]
     
  2. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    By how round it looks it reminds me of an updated version this one.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    Perhaps. But that model (what I recall was meant to be Mi-46) looks far bigger than the AW101 lookalike (I think it's Ch-53 to Mi-26 sized rather than 15 ton sized), and there are other differences such as discrepancy between rotor number, windows, etc.

    However the rotor number, windows, size, engines all fit with AW101. Personally I think an AW101 equivalent would be a great addition to the PLA, but that model has too many similarities to the merlin to take it seriously atm, imho.
     
  4. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    The number of windows on Mace's model is way more, than those on the CGI. The Model's Upper structure is very different too. Finally This looks very Familiar... Now I remember.
    [​IMG]
    note the paint job on the CGI, it's Almost Identical to the Paint on The US Marine One VH71 Kestral concept the Upper Structure is a virtual one for one... Methinks Someone Screwed up. This has to be the wrong image.
     
  5. Preux
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    Preux Junior Member

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    I don't. I am having trouble seeing what place such a helicopter would have in LH or PLAN given the current and near future line up, you have the 13-tonne class in the Super Frelon and its descendants including the very capable AC313 line, which is already navalised, you have the 7-8-tonne Z-15/EC175 family, you have the 4-tonne class Dauphin family for light utility duties, fully navalised, the 2-tonne class Ecureuil/ Z-11 for trainer and light duties. And then of course you have the large number of Mi-17 family taking on the somewhat lighter but much cheaper counterpart to the Z-8s, and the Kamovs for specialised heavy naval roles, and the Z-10 and Z-19.

    There are gaps here, but I am having trouble seeing how a smaller but heavier 14-tonne class is going to help with that. Now, something in the class of the Kestrel, that may fit better, or a proper 10-tonne versatile design like the Blackhawks, or a proper heavy helicopter, yes, they would both be very handy.

    Merlin? I just don't see it.
     
  6. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    Kestrel is the Merlin. The Kestrel was a licenced production of the AW.101 Merlin intended for the VIP chopper role of the USMC for the President of the United state of America. That program was killed. My point is the CGI model shown Is Identical to the Kestrel Concept art. I don't think the Chinese are a cloning the Kestrel I think that whoever posted the image either on the news or on the web messed up and posted the Wrong pic.

    In Terms of Weight class Merlin is on the smaller size but not by much.
     
  7. Preux
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    Preux Junior Member

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    Kestrel is a cancelled development of the Merlin with considerable gains in performance, pushing it to 16-tonne class, not the same animal. And my point is that I see no good niche for the Merlin except maybe a big development a la Kestrel, it has no clear advantage over the Super Frelon family.
     
  8. TerraN_EmpirE
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    TerraN_EmpirE Tyrant King

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    I dont think the chinese are buying merlin or kestrel. Westland Agusta is the builder. The Chinese tend to go Russian or French also they just got the AC313 variant online it seems to me like they might just try for a HYPER Frelon with new engines digital avionics and structural updates. then top the helo layer cake with that joint sino ruso 33 heavy
     
  9. jobjed
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    jobjed Captain

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    Preux never said anything about China buying the Merling or Kestrel, he said the Chinese might need something IN THE CLASS of the Kestrel.
     
  10. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    Z-8s are getting old, and we don't see any indications of modernized Z-8s/AC313s being produced as of yet.

    Optimally a modernized Z-8 would be in the class of the AW101 or S-92, but my point stands. The PLA don't have enough helicoptes in the weight class of Z-8s, and existing supre frelons are not only aging but less capable than foreign counterparts without a significant modernization (which we have seen no indications of). I don't think we disagree on the point that PLA needs their 13-14 ton helicopters, but instead on whether existing Z-8s can fill that role, and whether future variants of super frelons will be enough.
     

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