WW II Historical Thread, Discussion, Pics, Videos

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Jeff Head, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    delft I responded in
    WW II Historical Thread, Discussion, Pics, Videos
    https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ww...cussion-pics-videos.t6728/page-69#post-409578
    (if you want, we can go on :) but not in this thread)
     
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  2. delft
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    delft Senior Member

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    I never read Von Manstein but he is one of the generals blamed by some of the books I read of claiming credit for all his successes and blaming all his failures on Adolf. I also read that for Fall Zitadelle Hitler gave his generals a free hand despite his misgivings and that its outcome taught him to never do that again.
     
  3. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    it's well known von Manstein didn't want to quit at Kursk though
     
  4. delft
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    delft Senior Member

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    More fool he. The Russians had huge reserves that were not yet committed and the Northern pincer was defeated, the tank battle in the South was lost. Were would he have found the reserves to continue?
     
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  5. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    LOL!

    delft, at that point in war, the Germans repeatedly have successfully conducted campaigns which were "doomed to fail" ... and at Kursk, they were winning ON A TACTICAL LEVEL when it was called off
     
  6. delft
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    delft Senior Member

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    Their disabled tanks in the South were lost, the disabled tanks of the Russians were on their way to be repaired. Model didn't make progress anymore and two days later there would be a Russian offensive in his rear. No doubt they were tactically superior at some points but operationally they were loosing.
     
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  7. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    well, they were inflicting significant damage upon the enemy (the factor could be five) ... if this wasn't a compelling argument (because the Soviet Union couldn't be defeated this way anyway or something), then yes, it would be time to quit (both at Kursk and here :)
    EDIT common having finally deployed these:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    when else they should push it?

    by the way I posted about a theory the Germans should've played to win WW2:
     
    #697 Jura, Aug 11, 2016
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  8. delft
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    delft Senior Member

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    UK had immense interest in Middle East - Suez Canal, important for the connection with India, the oil from Iraq and Iran - so the effort of UK against Germany wouldn't have any less, possibly even more, than happened in history.
     
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  9. Jura
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    Jura Senior Member

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    plus I guess on the German side it would had required the territories (either allied or conquered) of Spain; Vichy France in Northern Africa; Turkey to secure places like Gibraltar; Malta; Cyprus first ... had this happened, though, I can't see how the British could stop Operation-Barbarossa-sized Wehrmacht in Egypt :)
     
    #699 Jura, Aug 11, 2016
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  10. delft
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    delft Senior Member

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    Perhaps Turkey would have cooperated and the Vichy authorities in Syria would have cooperated, there were the Italian owned Greek islands. But the British wouldn't have been driven out of Cyprus as happened on Crete. And how would a Barbarossa-sized Wehrmacht in the area be supplied? Besides the purpose is the oil of Iraq and Iran. The forces needed would be larger and more complex than needed in the nearly one dimensional North African coastal theatre. With UK itself not attacked and Germany blockaded no German effort far away in the Middle East would make any sense. The insurrection in Iraq was spectacular but would only have been successful with that mythical German force already in Syria.
     
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