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PiSigma

"the engineer"
and where in China do you live? cause I am sure you live there, work there, and your communist boss let you fly it 2 times a week, i guess you fly on a US $9000 dollars an hour flight time jet, sure sure you live in China specially with that English proficiency ;)
I clearly don't live in china and fly the corporate private jet because the company deems it worth it. BTW, each way for me on the jet only saves the company around $500 in expense, but my time is worth it for them.

I think most people on this forum know Im Canadian and works in O&G. My office to the refinery and production facility I'm working on would take a day's drive. But if I fly, it is 1 hour on the jet or 1.5 hours if I'm unlucky and get the turboprop. Each plane sits 9 passengers, and every time I fly there are 8 or 9 people. So clearly the company is getting their money's worth. Also, the company only pays minimum for airport fees, because we have our special terminal, and our own airport at site.

I'm just saying the type of people and organisations that do buy these jets requires a certain economic background which china clearly does. But china currently have limitations like airspace restrictions.

Different organisations have different needs from their employees, considering the number of large companies and the size of the country, even a small fraction of them getting jets for their CEOs and high value staff makes it worth while.

If any Chinese company have the same facilities and needs as mine, I won't be surprised if they buy a fleet of jets.
 

b787

Captain
I clearly don't live in china and fly the corporate private jet because the company deems it worth it. BTW, each way for me on the jet only saves the company around $500 in expense, but my time is worth it for them.

If any Chinese company have the same facilities and needs as mine, I won't be surprised if they buy a fleet of jets.

The question is each country is different, you can not extrapolate one country`s conditions into another.
If you watch this video you will see there are 3 ways of flying a business jet, Charter, Fractional ownership and full ownerships
.


For a Communist country like China chartering is more logical due to the fact the government can own the jets and simply charter them.


Further more regional jets make more sense like ERJ-145, ARJ-21 or Helicopters.


In Latin America full ownership is due to the fact criminals own them, they use them for illegal activities.


In the US due to a very high income they have the largest fleet in the world, further more they make them.

Brazil also is similar but only in manufacture, Mexico and Brazil are medium income countries, but with crime thus you can see lots of private jets owned by criminals, but in reality millions live in abject poverty




The figure of the capo of the Mexican drug Chapo Guzmán is not surprising. After its flight or its attempt of mediatic romance with a well-known actress, now has been known that it possessed a fleet of 599 aircraft.

According to information from the Mexican Ministry of Defense and collected by the newspaper El Universal, between 2006 and 2015 Mexican authorities confiscated a total of 599 aircraft (586 aircraft and 13 helicopters) owned by the so-called Sinaloa Cartel.

This authentic fleet was used by the cartel led by the Chapo Guzmán to transport the drug across the continent. The drug trafficking organization has had more than 4,700 illegal tracks throughout Mexico, reports Business Insider.

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PiSigma

"the engineer"
The question is each country is different, you can not extrapolate one country`s conditions into another.
If you watch this video you will see there are 3 ways of flying a business jet, Charter, Fractional ownership and full ownerships
.


For a Communist country like China chartering is more logical due to the fact the government can own the jets and simply charter them.


Further more regional jets make more sense like ERJ-145, ARJ-21 or Helicopters.


In Latin America full ownership is due to the fact criminals own them, they use them for illegal activities.


In the US due to a very high income they have the largest fleet in the world, further more they make them.

Brazil also is similar but only in manufacture, Mexico and Brazil are medium income countries, but with crime thus you can see lots of private jets owned by criminals, but in reality millions live in abject poverty


I don't think u know what "communist" means in china
 

vesicles

Colonel
why do not you stop thinking China is the USA and Texas?


I understand why rich nations in Example Germany, England has less private jets than Brazil or Mexico, and why China does not need and will not have as many private jets, I know you want to say China is like the USA, but you are wrong.

China is a communist country, for starters, like i did mention and show, Drug dealers in Mexico have private jets for their business, thus a poor nation like Mexico has more private jets than China, who gets private jets too? Corrupt officials yes of course Corrupt officials, Mexico has a real problem with corruption, thus corrupt officials have private jets too.

You are too stubborn and proud, even rich people these days rent their Jets, A Hong Kong based company Vistajet is saying it.

Why the Chinese are going to pay USD $27000 for a 3 hours flight? why they will pay USD $48 million dollars for a single jet?


Of course, no one specially a rich business man will do that, they are usually cheap and frugal, they do not want to pay such things for their employees, but a corrupt official will, thus the Chinese government will do the same put in Jail corrupt government officials owning jets.

You can not see that because you want to equate China with the USA, China is Asian, it has another mentality, I know it, I live in Asia and I lived in the USA.














I see that you've moved your goal post again. So now China is not poor anymore? It's because they are communists?

I believe I have a reputation on this forum for being candid, especially with regard to my own mistakes. I have openly admitted that I was wrong in many occasions. In fact, I think I've spent more posts admitting that I was wrong or my lack of knowledge on various things than arguing with people. You, on the other hand, are the one who is stubborn. You know you have lost the argument but still continue to fight because of your own pride.

Yes, I am a proud person. However, you and I have a different definition of what pride is. In my opinion, I am am intelligent person and I don't need to win every argument to demonstrate my superiority. And I am confident enough to not worry about "what others will think of me" when I admit I am wrong. That's why I consistently admit that I am wrong. And I constantly let people know that I know nothing of weapons, on a military forum. Why? My self esteem is high and I don't even spend a single second worrying about losing an argument. What is your definition of pride? Have you ever admitted that you are wrong?

Whether it is business jet or shoes, it doesn't matter. It is still a business decision about supply and demand. There is an increasing demand in China for business jet, as many experts are saying, and providing the supply will make you money. One of experts that I quoted in one of my earlier posts says "China has the money and desire for luxury goods". This is a business jet expert who has spent many years in China. What more do you want? Like I said, you are the one who is stubborn.

I simply don't get why you still insist that China doesn't have money. Everyone in the world knows China is loaded with cash. In their One Belt One Road, they are dumping cash like it's water. I'm talking about trillions and trillions of USD. And they can't afford some business jet?

Yes, many of China's companies are government owned. But it is precisely because of this, that they are spending more freely. They are not spending their own money. They are spending government money. That's why they are less hesitant when deciding on buying luxury goods.

Again, it's a simple logic. We are talking about investing in a future market. What you look for is a market that is currently low but has potential for future growth. We all agree that the business jet market in China is currently low. And you seem to not disagree that China can still grow and will eventually be as developed as Europe and the US. So we all agree that China satisfies both criteria for investing. So why are you still fighting? You simply don't want to admit that you have lost the argument. This is getting pathetic.
 
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b787

Captain
Again, it's a simple logic. We are talking about investing in a future market. What you look for is a market that is currently low but has potential for future growth. We all agree that the business jet market in China is currently low. And you seem to not disagree that China can still grow and will eventually be as developed as Europe and the US. So we all agree that China satisfies both criteria for investing. So why are you still fighting? You simply don't want to admit that you have lost the argument. This is getting pathetic.

We agree? no we do not agree, Europe has an Economy as big as the USA and has only 14% of world`s private jet fleet, thus Europe still has lot of room to be like the USA, the USA has 64% of the world`s private jet fleet, however you say they are not growing.


The question is like I said to you, you are saying China is the USA, no it is not, it is first a mixed economy system of Communism and crony capitalism.

Second the world trend is not full ownership, but Chartering and fractional ownership, and the Chinese government is fighting corruption thus this has capped the sales of aircraft.

third is disparity is salaries

Average Salary Information for US Workers
According to the
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, the median wage for workers in the United States in the fourth quarter of 2016 was $849 per week or $44,148 per year for a 40-hour work week.

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According to ECA International, the average real wage increase of 4.7 percent forecast for Chinese workers in 2017 is considerably higher than the global average forecast of 1.5 percent and the Asia-Pacific forecast of 2.6 percent.

These high salary increases place China fourth in ECA's "global real wage increase" rankings for 2017, up two places from the previous year.

Shanghai remains the city with the highest minimum wage, with workers entitled to 2,190 yuan ($317) per month. Shenzhen (2,030 yuan), Guangzhou (1,895 yuan) and Beijing (1,890 yuan) round out the top four.

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Is China an equal of the USA, no it is not, even if it is growing the forecast still shows China might purchase only 700 aircraft by 2025 and currently possess a fleet of 300 aircraft.
 

b787

Captain
Cessna Latitude ‘A Billion Dollar Business’
Oct 11, 2017
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Aviation is in the process of delivering its 100th
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Citation Latitude midsize business jet.

The delivery, which will be made to NetJets, comes 26 months after the first Latitude entered service.

“Two and a half years ago, this business didn’t exist at Cessna,” Textron Aviation President and CEO Scott Ernest said recently. “Now it’s a billion-dollar business.”

NetJets extended its total order for Latitudes to up to 200 aircraft when it took delivery of its first one in June 2016. It will take delivery of 28 Latitudes this year. The company delivered 42 Citation Latitudes in 2016.

The aircraft is gaining traction and receiving more global recognition, Ernest said.

“In this business, you have to make educated guesses on what the new products have to be,” Ernest said. “It’s hands-down the number-one product out the door.”

Textron Aviation is investing heavily in new products, even though the overall business jet market will likely grow only incrementally, Ernest said. “That’s OK,” Ernest said. “We’re cautiously optimistic that it will go in a positive direction for us.”

The company is building on the lessons learned with the Latitude, a clean-sheet design, in its new Citation Longitude large jet.

The aircraft is on static display at NBAA. After the show, the Longitude will make a demonstration tour in North America before going on an international tour.

“It is hands down the quietest cabin in the industry,” Ernest said. “We set out on that mission.”

The company is using acoustic windowpanes, isolated interior panels, damped pockets and floors, and other features to cut down noise.

“A lot of science went into it, and we’re very excited about it,” said Brad Thress, Textron Aviation vice president of engineering.

The aircraft’s noise level is the same as that inside a Textron Aviation office, he said.

A ride inside the Longitude test aircraft demonstrated how quiet. Conversation taking place in the forward zone of the aircraft was audible in the aft section of the aircraft.

Five Longitude are in flight test and the first production aircraft is off the production line. Units through number 14 are in some stage of production line flow.

Longitude test aircraft have completed more than 600 flights and have logged more than 1,200 flight hr., Thress said.

The Citation Longitude is being built inside a former Beechcraft facility, Plant IV, in east Wichita. It’s the first time that a Cessna jet has come down a former Beechcraft production line. Beechcraft ceased jet production during its bankruptcy before it sold to Cessna’s parent company, Textron, in 2014.

Textron Aviation has reorganized and improved Plant IV. And it has invested in the manufacturing processes of the Longitude, including using large, monolithic structures to reduce the number of parts, weight and production time.

It has designed vertical tooling so mechanics stand and work at chest height when they assemble the aircraft. Robots, rather than the mechanics, drill holes for fasteners.

“We really feel good about how the Longitude is progressing,” Ernest said.

The aircraft is powered by two HTF7000 engines and has a range of 3,500 nm with four passengers and maximum cruise of 476 kt.

Certification is expected by the end of 2017 or in early 2018.

Along with the Longitude, Textron Aviation is also developing the Cessna Denali single-engine turboprop, the Citation Hemisphere large jet and the Scorpion military aircraft. All three aircraft are in new markets for the company. “Those are all spaces we don’t compete in,” Ernest said.
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vesicles

Colonel

We are talking about potential and future growth. Nobody says China is as developed as the US now. China is still low but that's exactly what we want in a market that we want to invest.

Again, I think you perfectly understand what we are talking about. Anyone with a slim of logic would have understood it. You are simply desperately trying to move the goal post so that you don't look like you have lost the argument days ago. It's actually hilarious to watch how you try desperately to get out of a hole that you yourself dug days ago, without realizing that you are digging it deeper and deeper.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It is bizarre to talk about private jets and then quote US median and Chinese minimum wage levels. Both are irrelevant to the users of private jets whether personally or company owned.
That is the mental contortion we have witnessed for a long time.:D
 

b787

Captain
It is bizarre to talk about private jets and then quote US median and Chinese minimum wage levels. Both are irrelevant to the users of private jets whether personally or company owned.
China is a communist Government, Chinese officials are checking corruption do you know why? Do you think the average Chinese government official makes enough money to buy and operate a Private je?

An average American makes $44000 Dollars a year, a Average Chinese $300 dollars a month and in some big cities some Chinese can make $900 a Month.
Tell me how many of those people will operate a jet?

See
Very Light Jets flight hour cost
$ 2,000 / hr - $ 2,200 / hr
€ 2,000 / hr - € 2,200 / hr

These are small aircraft like Phenom

see that an average like jet like the Eclipse 550 costs $ 2.9 Million


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Tell me simply why the USA is the nation with more private jets?

Answer is simple, average american make $44000 dollars a month, richer Americans can make $90000 dollars on average for Americans is more affordable to own a jet.


Who has more wealth to operate small light jets? answer Americans, who has more jets well actually 12000 jets, well Americans facts are facts
 
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