Why Samsung fab at Xi'an, hynix fab at Wuxi, TSMC fab at Nanjing are BAD for china

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gelgoog

Brigadier
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Nothing is leak proof.
Besides the whole idea, like it was said here, is to have the facilities physically in China. Like it was said, they can simply restrict the amount of work visas to increase native laborers in those plants. There are lots of ways to force some sort of technology transfer.

With regard to "menial" laborers, read about about the V-2 reverse engineering by the Soviets. The Americans took all the rockets and the engineers from the plant and thought that would be enough to stop the Soviets from getting access to the V-2. The Soviets just got the machine shop operators to build them more V-2's and thus reverse engineered the V-2 that way. Then they moved all the machines tools to the Soviet Union. They did not need Werner von Braun and his team.

But yes China needs national champions. South Korean companies got to have the market presence they have today because their industries were protected by steep tariffs in South Korea proper when the business started out. I am certain China will find some way around it. For example there are many state owned companies in China and if they make a policy these companies need to give priority to a Chinese product if it is available they can easily ramp up demand that way.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Please provide sources.

Besides, what would Korea hide that the Chinese government does not already know?

The reason korea can get market share is due to their more preferential contracts with civilian companies, cheaper, more in house, faster signing etc. Their industry is WHOLLY reliant on Chinese tech. Literally 100%. Remeber when China threatened to sanction Japan over arresting some fishermen, Japan had to instantly comply with all demands. With a stranglehold on those industries, there is no way any of them can cheat in trade without being eventually found out and punished.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
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Please provide sources.

Besides, what would Korea hide that the Chinese government does not already know?

The reason korea can get market share is due to their more preferential contracts with civilian companies, cheaper, more in house, faster signing etc. Their industry is WHOLLY reliant on China tech

Qyestion :What's to hide?
Answer : the know how .

Comment: wholly reliant on China tech.
Question: what China tech?
 

Biscuits

Major
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Qyestion :What's to hide?
Answer : the know how .

Comment: wholly reliant on China tech.
Question: what China tech?

A1) knowhow of making kimchi or what? Like I explained these companies are only here because private companies gotta push price margins instead of buying from state owned firms. No amount of knowhow will make the state options like hisilicon more willing to share more for a lower price.

A2) ...The tech required to refine the materials needed so you can put them into the fab machine? And also the fab machine itself. Those things don’t build themselves.

You didn’t answer my question for a source or anything either. You are accusing those countries & companies of breaking multiple laws on both trade, employee rights and fair competition. I expect a statement like that to be backed up by more than “I think so”
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
A1) knowhow of making kimchi or what? Like I explained these companies are only here because private companies gotta push price margins instead of buying from state owned firms. No amount of knowhow will make the state options like hisilicon more willing to share more for a lower price.

A2) ...The tech required to refine the materials needed so you can put them into the fab machine? And also the fab machine itself. Those things don’t build themselves.

You didn’t answer my question for a source or anything either. You are accusing those countries & companies of breaking multiple laws on both trade, employee rights and fair competition. I expect a statement like that to be backed up by more than “I think so”

Chinese don't like kimchee.

Pushing price margin??
Last yr, China government scrutinize Samsung , hynix and Micron for excessive pricing, probing for monopoly. This complaint from Chinese customers.
The only pushing will come if Chinese Fabs come online. Right now there's no push of any kind. And price gauging is what they doing currently.

Fab machines?
None of Samsung , hynix and TSMC fab use any Chinese tech or Chinese fab machines. You think Korean and Taiwanese will use Chinese equipments?
No, they mostly use US and EU equipments.


How I can give a source when it's from watching TV program from Taiwanese channel a couple yrs back? The program talks about how robust TSMC security feature, no tech can be leaked to China.this is addressing taiwanese concern about TSMC setup at nanjing. And they talked about the korean fabs in China and taiwanese borrowed a page from them in term of preventing leaking.

If URL you looking for, I got none.

If you don't believe so be it. Just treat it as my own opinion instead.

Alot of things are just common sense, you don't need a URL every single time.
 
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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Chinese don't like kimchee.

Pushing price margin??
Last yr, China government scrutinize Samsung , hynix and Micron for excessive pricing, probing for monopoly. This complaint from Chinese customers.
The only pushing will come if Chinese Fabs come online. Right now there's no push of any kind.

Fab machines?
None of Samsung , hynix and TSMC fab use any Chinese tech or Chinese fab machines. You think Korean and Taiwanese will use Chinese equipments?
Not a chance


How I can give a source when it's from watching TV program from Taiwanese channel a few years back? If URL you looking for, I got none.

The cost is still drastically lower and carries more benefits, if not, why else would every low end phone maker use their services?

China has near monopoly on refining electronics grade materials, that's not a state secret. The threat of sanctions on Japan was enough to make Japan instantly comply with China's demands.

You think there is any choice to using Chinese equipment? Even their master America uses Chinese technology, what do you think Korea or Japan is to be above it?

If you ain't gonna give a source, might as well shut down the thread.
 

Appix

Senior Member
Registered Member
You have a point but China is heavily dependent on foreigners for semiconductors. Better have those foreign owned fabs in China then in some foreign country.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
You have a point but China is heavily dependent on foreigners for semiconductors. Better have those foreign owned fabs in China then in some foreign country.


Not when China's own Fabs about to come on line.

Why do you think Korea moving everything else out of China and to Vietnam except Semiconductor Fabs.

Anyone venture for an answer?
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
For those want a source then be my guest!

Go watch Taiwanese TV program series "critical moment" on 6/15/2017 .
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Quit with the personal attacks. The forum is for discussion, not childish name calling.

What you are claiming is in violation of laws and trade agreements, if it is true, then report it to the government with a straight face.

You have yet to address Japan & Korea’s dependency on Chinese material tech & machinery.

China(TW) is not even worth mentioning since it has insane brain, migrant and money drain into mainland China, maybe more than any other province ironically.
 
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