Why Samsung fab at Xi'an, hynix fab at Wuxi, TSMC fab at Nanjing are BAD for china

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tidalwave

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they are parasites.

They setup Fabs there to get preferential break and avoid import tariff yet they ONLY use their engineers; Korean and Tawainese to setup any type of equipment. No Chinese allowed in any setup.

They used Chinese only as dummy operators and other logistics.

They make an unspoken rule not to use any Chinese engineers . They don't want to teach Chinese anything.


Chinese government originally thought they can teach Chinese something and bringing up local industrial chain. That's total wrong. Those Fabs only bring their own or other foreign suppliers. No Chinese suppliers are used.

So they are parasites,dominating Chinese market and Chinese don't learn anything except as dummy operators.

Chinese government need to kick them out of China so Chinese Fabs can start up.

With them in China and dominating very difficult for China fab to succeed.

Samsung fab at Xi'an, hynix fab at Wuxi and TSMC fab at Nanjing are PARASITES. No good for China's future.
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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tidalwave said:
They setup Fabs there to get preferential break and avoid import tariff yet they ONLY use their engineers; Korean and Tawainese to setup any type of equipment. No Chinese allowed in any setup.
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I find this hard to believe. Source?
Even if it's true, the solution is trivial: just put caps on the number of work visas issued to foreign engineers in these fabs. They then either shut down (difficult to do when the investments are in the tens of billions) or hire Chinese engineers.

tidalwave said:
They don't want to teach Chinese anything.
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I doesn't matter what they want, they'll do what the Chinese government needs them to do or they won't make a penny of profit.
 
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tidalwave

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Korean already have plans to wipe out China fledging memory development through scale and more advanced technology.

Korean Display, cellphone plants are closing and moving out of China.

Yet they are still pouring more money into upgrade and expand their Fabs at China


Why? To crank out massive amount of more advanced memory chips even at losing price just to dominating Chinese market so the new Chinese memory Fabs won't see any daylight. No profit to speak of.


It's very heinous plot by the Korean.

China government needs to shut their predatorial fabs down and kick them out of China.

They are like widespread cancer cells attacking body.
 
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tidalwave

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ZeEa5KPul said:
I find this hard to believe. Source?
Even if it's true, the solution is trivial: just put caps on the number of work visas issued to foreign engineers in these fabs. They then either shut down (difficult to do when the investments are in the tens of billions) or hire Chinese engineers.


I doesn't matter what they want, they'll do what the Chinese government needs them to do or they won't make a penny of profit.
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Notice all those Fabs by Samsung, hynix, TSMC are fully owned by them


There are No Chinese JV of any kind to monitor them.

They do whatever they want inside their Fabs.

The recipes for making the chips are not stored at fab local servers. Instead it arrive from the cloud. Once the recipes downloaded into the equipment, the recipes at cloud will disappear.

So recipes arrived from cloud and disappear repeatedly.

So no storage of files at local sites.

I gather their info on their operations through many accumulative sources throughout the years.
So I don't have any particular article to link to you.

Majority of the major setup are one time deal at the beginning which they used exclusively their engineers.

Once operational, they don't need that many engineers to do maintenance.

So capping the work visas won't be usefu
 
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ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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tidalwave said:
Notice all those Fabs by Samsung, hynix, TSMC are fully owned by them


There are No Chinese JV of any kind to monitor them.

They do whatever they want inside their Fabs.

The recipes for making the chips are not stored at fab local servers. Instead it arrive from the cloud. Once the recipes downloaded into the equipment, the recipes at cloud will disappear.

So recipes arrived from cloud and disappear repeatedly.

So no storage of files at local sites.

I gather their info on their operations through many accumulative sources throughout the years.
So I don't have any particular article to link to you.

Majority of the major setup are one time deal at the beginning which they used exclusively their engineers.

Once operational, they don't need that many engineers to do maintenance.

So capping the work visas won't be usefu
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These plants are physically located in China, and the data was downloaded to them over a Chinese network (every network in China is a Chinese network and fully visible to the Chinese government - I don't care what VPN or encryption or 7 proxies they're behind). If the government doesn't have see what's going on in these fabs then China has much bigger problems than parasitic foreign companies.

There's also the fact that Chinese-owned fabs just can't operate at those nanometers, so these products would have to be imported if production wasn't in China. At least now if things get really bad the foreign fabs can be confiscated.
 
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tidalwave

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Chinese officials are politicians , they don't know this type of technical tricks by Korean and Taiwanese.

Having a foreign fab setup at their locations bringing alot of fanfares and publicity.

Actually they are harmful to China Semiconductor development.

They are secret agents infiltrating China
 
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tidalwave

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ZeEa5KPul said:
These plants are physically located in China, and the data was downloaded to them over a Chinese network (every network in China is a Chinese network and fully visible to the Chinese government - I don't care what VPN or encryption or 7 proxies they're behind). If the government doesn't have see what's going on in these fabs then China has much bigger problems than parasitic foreign companies.

There's also the fact that Chinese-owned fabs just can't operate at those nanometers, so these products would have to be imported if production wasn't in China. At least now if things get really bad the foreign fabs can be confiscated.
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Each chip comprised of hundred of recipes. Each recipe used code word only top management would know.

In each recipe, they used code name like A12C instead of the word DDR4 memory 8Mx16 .

Even you download their recipe is no use. You don't know what they used for.

Once the new Chinese memory Fabs online, China need to either to kick them out or restrict their output because Korean planning to use massive output strategy to kill Chinese memory Fabs.

Confisticated their Fabs are no use, each batch run the equipment will delete it's previous recipe file and empty and wait for the next one.

So if China confisticated it, you can bet all the equipment will be idle, empty with no instruction to run.


Same strategy Korean used to kill Japanese Elpida and Germany Infineon memory companies
 
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tidalwave

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Also, TSMC is a supporter of Taiwan independence, influenced by Morris Chang, he believed in contraining China at least technologically.

Huawei makes it vulnerable by relying on TSMC too much.

TSMC will cooperate with US government . no doubt about that.
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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tidalwave said:
Chinese officials are politicians , they don't know this type of technical tricks by Korean and Taiwanese.
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Chinese politicians are advised by technical experts, and if you can see these tricks then I'm sure the experts could as well, long before you did. There was a cost-benefit calculation done and I have every confidence that the government (which knows far more about this than you do) weighed the options and came to the decision that was most in keeping with China's interests.

Frankly, if this lights a fire under Chinese companies' as*es (especially SOEs), then so much the better. They've been getting fat and comfortable off Chinese savers' and taxpayers' subsidies. Time for them to sweat a little and sing for their supper.

tidalwave said:
Each chip comprised of hundred of recipes. Each recipe used code word only top management would know.
In each recipe, they used code name like A12C instead of the word DDR4 memory 8Mx16 .
Click to expand...
Code-words and "eagle has landed" type messages are trivial cryptanalytic problems. Even mathematically intractable cryptography can be bypassed with just a single zero-day exploit (of which China has plenty, as US companies will attest) - and these are networks in China, under Chinese surveillance.

tidalwave said:
Once the new Chinese memory Fabs online, China need to either to kick them out or restrict their output because Korean planning to use massive output strategy to kill Chinese memory Fabs.
Click to expand...
I'm sure China has all the tools it needs to manage the situation if it gets out of hand. I have a sneaking suspicion that you're an employee at one of these technologically lagging Chinese companies, in which case I have something to say to you: git gud. Don't count on some knight on horseback to come to your rescue, up your game and put the Koreans out of business. Seriously, are you going to let China lose to Korea? For shame.

tidalwave said:
TSMC will cooperate with US government . no doubt about that.
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There was actually a recent litmus test about exactly this. As soon as the US government banned Qualcomm from dealing with ZTE, TSMC came out with the statement that categorically rejected disrupting business ties with the Mainland in any way. It seems that money is the biggest thing influencing TSMC - that and the knowledge that if the PRC goes down it's taking Taiwan with it.
 
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tidalwave

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ZeEa5KPul said:
Chinese politicians are advised by technical experts, and if you can see these tricks then I'm sure the experts could as well, long before you did. There was a cost-benefit calculation done and I have every confidence that the government (which knows far more about this than you do) weighed the options and came to the decision that was most in keeping with China's interests.

Frankly, if this lights a fire under Chinese companies' as*es (especially SOEs), then so much the better. They've been getting fat and comfortable off Chinese savers' and taxpayers' subsidies. Time for them to sweat a little and sing for their supper.


Code-words and "eagle has landed" type messages are trivial cryptanalytic problems. Even mathematically intractable cryptography can be bypassed with just a single zero-day exploit (of which China has plenty, as US companies will attest) - and these are networks in China, under Chinese surveillance.


I'm sure China has all the tools it needs to manage the situation if it gets out of hand. I have a sneaking suspicion that you're an employee at one of these technologically lagging Chinese companies, in which case I have something to say to you: git gud. Don't count on some knight on horseback to come to your rescue, up your game and put the Koreans out of business. Seriously, are you going to let China lose to Korea? For shame.


There was actually a recent litmus test about exactly this. As soon as the US government banned Qualcomm from dealing with ZTE, TSMC came out with the statement that categorically rejected disrupting business ties with the Mainland in any way. It seems that money is the biggest thing influencing TSMC - that and the knowledge that if the PRC goes down it's taking Taiwan with it.
Click to expand...


Korean predatorial industrial strategies have killed Japanese elpida and Germany Qimonda, if Chinese government doesn't step in to monitor the situation closely new Chinese memory fabs would suffer the same fate. That's the bottom line.

With the trade war going on emphasis on no forced or coerced tech transfer, China best strategy is through anti monopoly policy.

Get ready to Fine Samsung, Hynix for monopoly behavior and regulate their output in China, preempt them from both end of spectrum; price gauging or dumping to kill competitors.

Also the bottom line is Chinese will never ever learn anything from those Korean and Taiwanese Fabs. Their security is leak proof against any knowledge leak to China. I don't care if able to intercept recipes through network and try to hack them. They got chopped up into so many small pieces if you don't have inside knowledge, you have no idea what they used for.
 
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