Why didn't China buy the MiG-29?

crobato · Sep 9, 2006

There are a lot of legends behind why China didn't buy the MiG-29.

One has to do with an airshow crash. Another lies in Chinese officials hearing the MiG-29s got their asses kicked in Ethiopia by Su-27s.

For what it's worth, China was actually after the MiG-31s. After TAM, after the Gulf War, after hearing all what the ROC was procuring, the PRC needed to make a statement.

But the MiG-31s was refused by Russia as being too politically sensitive. It was said that the PLAAF was indeed interested on the MiG-29---the PLAAF only knows MiG designs historically from the MiG-9 all the way up, and the PLAAF has never in its entire history, had a Sukhoi aircraft.

Accordnig to a post by Rick Kamer, it was Li Peng's intervention that got the PLAAF Su-27s instead. I had an impression that the PLAAF was dragged screaming and kicking into this. Suffice to say, history was written then.

As for the J-8II Peace Pearl upgrade, even without TAM happening, the project would have been skunked anyway the moment Grumman would hand the bill to the Chinese.

swimmerXC · Sep 9, 2006

crobato said:
There are a lot of legends behind why China didn't buy the MiG-29.

One has to do with an airshow crash. Another lies in Chinese officials hearing the MiG-29s got their asses kicked in Ethiopia by Su-27s.

For what it's worth, China was actually after the MiG-31s. After TAM, after the Gulf War, after hearing all what the ROC was procuring, the PRC needed to make a statement.

But the MiG-31s was refused by Russia as being too politically sensitive. It was said that the PLAAF was indeed interested on the MiG-29---the PLAAF only knows MiG designs historically from the MiG-9 all the way up, and the PLAAF has never in its entire history, had a Sukhoi aircraft.

According to a post by Rick Kamer, it was Li Peng's intervention that got the PLAAF Su-27s instead. I had an impression that the PLAAF was dragged screaming and kicking into this. Suffice to say, history was written then.

As for the J-8II Peace Pearl upgrade, even without TAM happening, the project would have been skunked anyway the moment Grumman would hand the bill to the Chinese.

Forgive my incompetence, but what is TAM?

maozedong · Sep 9, 2006

im

swimmerXC said:
Forgive my incompetence, but what is TAM?

Swimmer:
I think TAM meens TenAonMen,in Beijing,some thing happened in Jun,4,1989.
I don't know how long Crobato can reply to you, I try to answer it for you.
I hope the answer is not wrong.

tphuang · Sep 10, 2006

maozedong said:
I accept your advice,arturlly you have more research on it.
but I don't think the first batch of Su27 delivered to China was in 1992,I have read two books that mantioned China ordered Su27 in 1992.if China got first batch Su27 in 1992,they should ordered it in 1989 or 1990,seems not impassble,in that time Soveit Union was not dessolution yet.
the second batch and third batch are in the right time.
India get more weapon from European in recent years, if they can get fighter like french Rafale,twin engine,good for carrier,how do they think?
they bought many French Mirage 2000 in last decade,that means they don't want to always buy Russia weapon,just same as China,if China can,they will buy European's.
India will built 6 submarine with France,I think you know already.

I really don't want to be harsh, but you are drying my patience.

China ordered su-27s in 1991 and got them in 1992. They ordered more in 1995 and got them in 1996. So how did they get them so fast? I believe they got some of the planes that were originally intended for the Russian air foce. Even ignoring that, the su-30s were delivered within 1 and a half year of their signing date. Nothing close to the 3 to 4 years that you are mentionning. So please stop speculating on it.

What are you talking about with India? India bought plenty of Mig-29Ks. Go check this up. It seems like the only carrier fighters in the future for IN after Harriers will be Mig-29Ks and possibly naval LCA. Again, please do not make things up.

googeler · Sep 10, 2006

crobato wrote:

There are a lot of legends behind why China didn't buy the MiG-29.

One has to do with an airshow crash. Another lies in Chinese officials hearing the MiG-29s got their asses kicked in Ethiopia by Su-27s.

That's not a valid reason. Eritrean MiG-29s were shot down by Ethiopian Su-27s in 1999, 8 years after the decision was made.

maozedong wrote:

that means "china can't ",not the "china can".
see the Jxx thread may know more future of chinese aviation.
do you know the problem china order these Russion fighters?

Could you be a bit more clear in your answers? I didn't understand what you mean.

maozedong · Sep 10, 2006

tphuang said:
I really don't want to be harsh, but you are drying my patience.

China ordered su-27s in 1991 and got them in 1992. They ordered more in 1995 and got them in 1996. So how did they get them so fast? I believe they got some of the planes that were originally intended for the Russian air foce. Even ignoring that, the su-30s were delivered within 1 and a half year of their signing date. Nothing close to the 3 to 4 years that you are mentionning. So please stop speculating on it.

What are you talking about with India? India bought plenty of Mig-29Ks. Go check this up. It seems like the only carrier fighters in the future for IN after Harriers will be Mig-29Ks and possibly naval LCA. Again, please do not make things up.

you said Mig-29 is no good in the post ,check yous post in above.
in my post I agree all the post oppinion, and add one oppinion that Mig-29 is target of USAF,check my first post.
I discussed with some one,and I aleardy declear I don't know exatly Su27 delivery year due to the china defence secret. you joint to talk to us then you should be nice whatevery my oppinion is right or not.
for the forum talk purpose is to make everybody get improved in knowlege.
althrough some one make mistake you should let him talk,after discuss then to correct some one's error,unlease some one make rumour willfully.
I think you misunderstand me.first time I talk to you with a icon that little person with a stick looks like USA, I asked you one question then no more talk.
after one day I post my self but you looks so mad,that style make me mad too.since that I far awy from your post.
we are both man and far away in the world,we should be friend with no troble,
I don't mine some body correct my wrong oppinion,but you don't have to mad if I don't accept your oppinion.
this is not VIP forum,so some times some body may have many wrong oppinion,
and deffint person read deffint books, magazines they may have deffint oppinion.I read the book that tell me in 1992,china order Su27,and they don't know when the Su 27 delivery to china,until it fround out in a airport in JilingXi province, and between 1992-1995,Russia report chinese pilot trian in Russia.I am not insiting this oppinion, just make sample.
I discuss to some one today after that we forget everything.
we just discuss here and we don't fighting for money,we should be frient in here.
I talk too much but I have to explain that, after I keep quiet.this is only one.

tphuang · Sep 10, 2006

maozedong said:
you said Mig-29 is no good in the post ,check yous post in above.
in my post I agree all the post oppinion, and add one oppinion that Mig-29 is target of USAF,check my first post.
I discussed with some one,and I aleardy declear I don't know exatly Su27 delivery year due to the china defence secret. you joint to talk to us then you should be nice whatevery my oppinion is right or not.
for the forum talk purpose is to make everybody get improved in knowlege.
althrough some one make mistake you should let him talk,after discuss then to correct some one's error,unlease some one make rumour willfully.
I think you misunderstand me.first time I talk to you with a icon that little person with a stick looks like USA, I asked you one question then no more talk.
after one day I post my self but you looks so mad,that style make me mad too.since that I far awy from your post.
we are both man and far away in the world,we should be friend with no troble,
I don't mine some body correct my wrong oppinion,but you don't have to mad if I don't accept your oppinion.
this is not VIP forum,so some times some body may have many wrong oppinion,
and deffint person read deffint books, magazines they may have deffint oppinion.I read the book that tell me in 1992,china order Su27,and they don't know when the Su 27 delivery to china,until it fround out in a airport in JilingXi province, and between 1992-1995,Russia report chinese pilot trian in Russia.I am not insiting this oppinion, just make sample.
I discuss to some one today after that we forget everything.
we just discuss here and we don't fighting for money,we should be frient in here.
I talk too much but I have to explain that, after I keep quiet.this is only one.

what? I said Mig-29 was not viewed as highly by plaaf as su-27. I never said mig-29s are bad. In the early 90s, Mig-29 was certainly better than anything plaaf had.

Anyhow, I'm here to correct you. You should not be posting rumours and such. And if people correct you, you should accept it with more grace rather than just denying it.

maozedong · Sep 10, 2006

yes,
you said that Mig-29 is no good in your post!
you make a lots of rumour in the forum.
1991 order Su27,1992 delivery to china,you think everybody are child.

isthvan · Sep 10, 2006

maozedong said:
you make a lots of rumour in the forum.
1991 order Su27,1992 delivery to china,you think everybody are child.

Tphuang is right; first batch of Su-27s was delivered to PLAAF during 1992… This was confirmed by Russian, Western and Chinese sources… I don’t see why you doubt that?

tphuang · Sep 10, 2006

maozedong said:
yes,
you said that Mig-29 is no good in your post!
you make a lots of rumour in the forum.
1991 order Su27,1992 delivery to china,you think everybody are child.

I wrote:
"Plus, they thought su-27 was the better plane. So no matter how much cheaper Mig-29 was, pla was just going for the best plane available for them at that time."
which means plaaf did not think mig-29 was as good as su-27. Is that so hard to understand. Maybe you should point to the line where I said Mig-29 was no good when the selection was done.

When I post rumours, I state them as rumours. It seems to me that everyone agrees with my assessment that China ordered su-27 in 1991 and started getting them in 1992. If you have some real source stating otherwise, please state so.

Why didn't China buy the MiG-29?

crobato

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swimmerXC

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maozedong

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tphuang

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googeler

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maozedong

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tphuang

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maozedong

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isthvan

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tphuang

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