What's wrong with PLAN ASW?

Over and over agin in this forum I have read by pro-PRC types that the ASW capablities of the PLAN are pathetic.

So..My questions abound.

1. If the ASW of the PLAN is indeed poor how well would the PLAN ever track an LA class or any other sub?

2. What are the capalities of airborne i.e. helo, patrol aircraft of the PLAN?

3. What sort of sonar does the PLAN have?

4. A poster posted that the PLAN torpedos were terrible. What sort of future torpedos can we expect to see? Will an new indignous torpedo be built or will the PLAN buy one "off the shelf?" And what about any PLAN ASROC???

Any well thought out answers would be appericated.

Please do not turn this thread into PLAN vs. USN/Japan/ROC./India. Answer with best knowledge you can. No warmonging and country bashing please.

Thank you!

I'll try first...

1. If the ASW of the PLAN is indeed poor how well would the PLAN ever track an LA class or any other sub?

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Well it have not been able to do so. ASW has been as big weakness to PLAN just as the Airdefence. The sole adequate sonar system was the french DUBV-23 hull mounted and DUBV-43 VDS onboard 112 and 113 DDGs. the antisubmarine weaponry was limited to small whitehead-copy torbedoes and old soviet RBU-1200 ASW rocket launcher-clones. But whit tracking US subs, we have to remember that untill the late 90s PLAN has been pretty much coastal force and submarine detection in shallow waters is bit different than in the far ocean. I quess those Los Angeles class SSNs have hard time to navigate in Chinese archiphegalon....

2. What are the capalities of airborne i.e. helo, patrol aircraft of the PLAN?

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Almoust as weak as the ASW capapility. There is no longrange patrol aircraft in service (althoug some converted Y-8s have been tested) exept the SH-5 flying boat wich is inadequate to operate in modern climate.

3. What sort of sonar does the PLAN have?

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Well i mentioned those french sonars onboard the Luhu class. The two Sovremennyys have the Platina suite (Bull Horn and Whale Tongue), but it is more just a selfdefence suite, not intended for hunting activly down enemy subs...Whit these new DDGs i don't know. At least 052B Should have far more capaple sonar system than the previous ones. The use of Ka-28 indicates that ASW is also this ships function.

A poster posted that the PLAN torpedos were terrible. What sort of future torpedos can we expect to see? Will an new indignous torpedo be built or will the PLAN buy one "off the shelf?" And what about any PLAN ASROC???

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China have actually developted an ASW missile system called CY-1, but it was cancelled


There's some rumours that China have bought the Klub-S system to it's newest Kilos, if so then we may assume that China might purchase the surfaceship version Klu-N also. That would give china it's first ASW operational ASW missile system and creatly increases PLANs capapilityes.

Thanks Gollevainen. Good info.

But whit tracking US subs, we have to remember that untill the late 90s PLAN has been pretty much coastal force and submarine detection in shallow waters is bit different than in the far ocean. I quess those Los Angeles class SSNs have hard time to navigate in Chinese archiphegalon

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Very true. The USN has no subs designed for littorial waters. I think the USN is reyling on the long range ablities of the P-3 aircraft for littoral ASW until it's FSF(Fast Sea Frame) or LCS(Littoral Combat Ship) become operational in a few years.

well, popeye, i dont think the pla is too concerned about us subs right now. they might be building against tiawan and its nonexistant sub force, which may explain the lack of asw.

MIGleader said:

well, popeye, i dont think the pla is too concerned about us subs right now. they might be building against tiawan and its nonexistant sub force, which may explain the lack of asw.

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That is a fatal flaw. Remember in World War II, US sub force accounted for 4 percent of the USN but sunk 50 percent of Japanese ships lost in the war.

As for littoral ASW, the main tool is the active sonar. The amount of noise the littoral environment emits makes it harder to detect a sub in it. Active sonar from helo dipping sonars and active sonobouys, can make a life of an SSK skipper very trying.

the taianese sub force is more pathetic thean u think. four subs, with two from ww2. anthing can take it.

hmm, I think the main issue is detection. Klub-N should be fairly good as a torpedoe. The main torpedoe China still uses is MK-46 (Yu-7). Does anyone know what the Ka-28 is carrying?

do some reaserch here:

IDonT said:

That is a fatal flaw. Remember in World War II, US sub force accounted for 4 percent of the USN but sunk 50 percent of Japanese ships lost in the war.

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That's because the Japanese only had a couple of sub chasers in South Asia. Japan is an island nation that was dependent on shipping for most of their supplies.

Ok guys..Another question before you get way off topic..

What sort of ASW does the PLAN need? Just some partial capablity or full ASW?

well, popeye, i dont think the pla is too concerned about us subs right now. they might be building against tiawan and its nonexistant sub force, which may explain the lack of asw.
9 Hours Ago 12:02 PM

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They should be. Because if there ever is any confrontation between the US and PRC subs would play a big role. Building up against the ROC Navy? That would make sense since their sub force is basically non-existant as you say.