What can the PLA learn from the IDF?

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
darth sidious said:
israel surived the first three wars because of the weakness of her enmey not it own power

later own sperior equipment and forgein support allowed it to surive

besides they have uncle sam and NUkes to protect them

In the 1948 war, I'll give you that.
In the 1956 war, I'll give you that
In the 1967 war, Israel wipe the floor against 4 Arab armies and defeated them in 6 days. Superior training, planning, and motivation allowed them to destroy the Egyptian airforce in the ground.
In the 1973 war, weakness of Arab army mid-level leadership made them lose their initial gains. Lack of initiative.
In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, Israel was a first rate military. Nothing in the arab world could defeat them in a conventional conflict.
 

Red not Dead

Junior Member
VIP Professional
IDonT said:
In the 1948 war, I'll give you that.
In the 1956 war, I'll give you that
In the 1967 war, Israel wipe the floor against 4 Arab armies and defeated them in 6 days. Superior training, planning, and motivation allowed them to destroy the Egyptian airforce in the ground.
In the 1973 war, weakness of Arab army mid-level leadership made them lose their initial gains. Lack of initiative.
In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, Israel was a first rate military. Nothing in the arab world could defeat their AF in a conventional conflict.

;) fixed...
 

Baibar of Jalat

Junior Member
In the 1948 war, I'll give you that.
In the 1956 war, I'll give you that
In the 1967 war, Israel wipe the floor against 4 Arab armies and defeated them in 6 days. Superior training, planning, and motivation allowed them to destroy the Egyptian airforce in the ground.
In the 1973 war, weakness of Arab army mid-level leadership made them lose their initial gains. Lack of initiative.
In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, Israel was a first rate military. Nothing in the arab world could defeat them in a conventional conflict.

All that happened in one generation. Today its true Israel is superior, however as history consistantly shows great power never lasts forever and funny Israel is not a great power. The victory was due to enemy weaknesses and usually as history shows nations change. Look at the example of Japan from being military backward in 1870s to being able to defeat the russians in 1904

I do not think anyone could have predicted a nation that was beset by frequet civil strife with no raw materials and vunerable to colonisation could become a major power. I am not bashing anyone but i think history is against Israel look at Tiawan. I could be bullshiting and dreaming but you know we can only speculative about future.

Unless you believe the Arabs can be military weak for a long time then thats ur opinion. i do not believe militarily they could challege israel in next 30 years but economy esp GCC is rapidly modenising.

looking forward to reply's. i hope u do not think i am bashing its just an observation.
 

darth sidious

Banned Idiot
IDonT said:
In the 1948 war, I'll give you that.
In the 1956 war, I'll give you that
In the 1967 war, Israel wipe the floor against 4 Arab armies and defeated them in 6 days. Superior training, planning, and motivation allowed them to destroy the Egyptian airforce in the ground.
In the 1973 war, weakness of Arab army mid-level leadership made them lose their initial gains. Lack of initiative.
In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, Israel was a first rate military. Nothing in the arab world could defeat them in a conventional conflict.

in 1967 israel use M-4 the arabs has T-55
israel has no SAM arabs have SA-2
Arabs has AKM israel has small number of FN and some K98K
israel has limited amount of Marige III arabs has masses of MIG-21
Arab navy has whisky sub OSa missile boat and styx missile israel has some old WWII ddestroyers

israel's victory is only possible bacause of arab weakness and they superior training and tatics
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Ok, now quit making fuzz over nothing here. Israel won those wars, 90% by their own skills, motivation, innovativety and training. Inspite i dislike Israel as much as any leftwinger is obligated to dislike, i still wont denye they credit over achievements in all of those past wars, in purely military aspect.

The thread is about China-Israel relationships So I guess you should try to pay more focus on it than to turn this into something unwanted...
 

Red not Dead

Junior Member
VIP Professional
darth sidious said:
in 1967 israel use M-4 the arabs has T-55
israel has no SAM arabs have SA-2
Arabs has AKM israel has small number of FN and some K98K
israel has limited amount of Marige III arabs has masses of MIG-21
Arab navy has whisky sub OSa missile boat and styx missile israel has some old WWII ddestroyers

israel's victory is only possible bacause of arab weakness and they superior training and tatics


OMG are you for real...I mean you do knwo the IDf had other first line tanks than m4 (that btw were m51 jumbo 90mm) like chieftains and m48's...:nono:

Arabs had akm's your kids had m 14/ garands. Israel had Nike Sams.

There are so many example.
 

utelore

Junior Member
VIP Professional
greetings all. its been a bit. anywaaaay....Today the U.S is going to more of a modular design for its BCT the same base op-method as Israel. This all was started by rummy. Is this Good? maybe maybe not. hard to say right now. ALSO the Israeli army is huge. It has more and BETTER armour than the PRC!!!! overall I think the PRC should focus on the Tech from Israel but stick to its own op-method of deploying those weapon systems.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Hi utelore welcome back.

I think Israel is going to have some severe problems in the future. Mostly
it's literally GIVEN free of charge front-line american gear which in some
cases hasn't even reached the US military however in a multi-polar
world with roughly equivalent weapons systems it's going to have difficulty
maintaining a technological edge.

That's APART from all the other problems it's going to be faced with including
some pretty severe economic ones'
 

Kampfwagen

Junior Member
Personaly, I find many paralells in many ways to Japan. It's stability (Neigh. It's existance) relies heavily on an outside military power. In this instance, both are the United States. That, in of it's self, is where the biggest mar for a comparison between the PLA and the IDF begins. While China has a defense-oriented strategy, the PLA does not rely on an outside influence to keep such a strategy fesable. China is not assisted in any way by an outside military power. The second large dent in a comparison is the fact that China is not a small state surrounded by potential enemies, but a large state that is for the most part isolated (asside from Russia and Japan, though both would, again, rely heavily on United States assistance if they were to launch an attack on China IMHO).

The biggest thing though that you have to remember about battles such as the Arab-Isralei war is that, while the Arab commanders were largely incompetent, the Israleis thought of some pretty smart ideas. The Trees of Golan Heights is a great example. In the first formation of Isreal, one must remember that they were simple farmers and settlers, with some smart military commanders working behind the scenes and people who would not give up their resolve. That is rather admirable to me. Though Isreal definately has alot of things to answer for, it certantly has a proud military history that regardless of outside assistance, really does help. The Arab nations were, remember, getting outside assitance as well. Not as extensive as that of Isreal and the U.S but a definate presence none the less.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Kampfwagen said:
In the first formation of Isreal, one must remember that they were simple farmers and settlers, with some smart military commanders working behind the scenes and people who would not give up their resolve. That is rather admirable to me. Though Isreal definately has alot of things to answer for, it certantly has a proud military history that regardless of outside assistance, really does help. The Arab nations were, remember, getting outside assitance as well. Not as extensive as that of Isreal and the U.S but a definate presence none the less.

Actually the Jews were mostly soldiers from the second world war or european
immigrants.

At this time (1922) the population of Palestine consisted of approximately 589,200 Muslims, 83,800 Jews, 71,500 Christians and 7,600 others (1922 census [1]). However, this area gradually saw a large influx of Jewish immigrants (most of whom were fleeing the increasing persecution in Europe). This immigration and accompanying call for a Jewish state in Palestine drew immediate and violent opposition from local Arabs.

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Please don't rehash tired old jewish propaganda about jews making 'the land green'
or 'a land without people for a people without land'

Please see discussion on the talk page.

From 1936 onward the British government facilitated the training, arming, recruitment and funding of a range of security and intelligence forces in collaboration with the Jewish Agency. These included the Guards (Notrim), which were divided into the 6,000 to 14,000-strong Jewish Supernumerary Police,[9] the élite and highly mobile 6,000-8,000 strong Jewish Settlement Police[10] and the Special Night Squads,[11] the forerunner of Britain's Special Air Service regiments.[12] There was also an élite strike force known as the FOSH, or Field Companies,[13] with around 1,500 members, which were replaced by the larger HISH or Field Force in 1939.[14] [15] The SHAI, the intelligence and counter-espionage arm of the Haganah, was the forebear of Mossad.[16]

The Palestinians were farmers and peasants who had to take up arms. The jews had received MORE than enough training

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the British government decided on 15 April, 1941 that the 10,000 Jews dispersed in the single defense companies of the Buffs should be prepared for war service at the battalion level and that another 10,000 should also be mobilized along with 6,000 Supernumerary Police and 40,000 to 50,000 home guard. The plans were approved by Field Marshall John Dill. The Special Operations Executive in Cairo approved a Haganah proposal for guerilla activities in northern Palestine led by the Palmach, as part of which Yitzhak Sadeh devised Plan North for an armed enclave in the Carmel range from which the Yishuv could defend the region and from which they could attack Nazi communications and supply lines, if necessary. British intelligence also trained a small radio network under Moshe Dayan to act as spy cells in the event of a German invasion.[18]

After much hesitation, on July 3, 1944, the British government consented to the establishment of a Jewish Brigade with hand-picked Jewish and also non-Jewish senior officers. On September 20, 1944, an official communique by the War Office announced the formation of the Jewish Brigade Group of the British Army. The Zionist flag was officially approved as its standard. It included more than 5,000 Jewish volunteers from Palestine organized into three infantry battalions and several supporting units.[19]

As soon as the war ended British policy reverted to that of the period immediately before the war and arms were confiscated and some Haganah members were arrested and tried, one notable case being that of Eliahu Sacharoff who received a sentence of seven years' imprisonment for possession of two more cartridges than his firearms licence allowed. Despite these severe difficulties the Haganah was aware that its military capabilities far surpassed those of the Arab population.[20]

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If you want to make a comparison imagine Pakistan (remember 30% of the Indian army left to join Pakistan) armed with the latest high tech gear, backed up by billions of dollars from a worldwide diaspora and facing a population of Indian peasants...

Who do you think would win ?
 
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