Weapons And Tactics Of The 06 Middleast War

utelore

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DEATH AT TWO KLICKS FROM THE GUIDED ANTI TANK MISSILE

It is Hezbollah's skillful use of these weapons - in particular wire-guided and laser-guided antitank missiles, with double, phased explosive warheads and a range of up to three kilometers, or about two miles - that has caused most of the casualties to Israeli forces.

Hezbollah's Russian-made antitank missiles, designed to penetrate explosive tank armor, have damaged or destroyed Israeli vehicles, including its most modern tank, the Merkava, on about 20 percent of their hits, say Israeli tank commanders at the front.

Hezbollah has also used antitank missiles, including the less modern Sagger, to fire from a distance into houses in which Israeli troops are sheltering, with a first explosion cracking the typical cement-block wall and the second going off inside.

"They use them like artillery to hit houses," said Brigadier General Yossi Kuperwasser, until recently the Israeli Army's director of intelligence analysis. "They can use them accurately up to even three kilometers, and they go through a wall like through the armor of a tank."

Hezbollah fighters use pre-dug tunnels to emerge quickly out of the ground, fire a shoulder-held antitank missile, and then disappear again, much the way Chechen rebels used the sewer system of Grozny to attack Russian armored columns
 

coolieno99

Junior Member
utelore said:
....Hezbollah has also used antitank missiles, including the less modern Sagger, to fire from a distance into houses in which Israeli troops are sheltering, with a first explosion cracking the typical cement-block wall and the second going off inside...
It was on Wednesday, 9 Israeli soldiers were killed inside a building. One news report said the building was struck by an ATGM(Sagger) like the one described in your quote. But the NY Times mentioned the building was rigged with an explosive booby trap. It will be awhile before we know how actually those 9 soldiers were killed.
 

utelore

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Tank hit
Meanwhile, in the central district, around of the area of the town of Ainta, a Merkava tank was hit by a similar missile.

One of the soldiers in the tank was seriously injured and two were lightly to moderately wounded.

A second tank which arrived to rescues the wounded was also hit by an anti-tank missile and one of the tank's crew members was also seriously injured.
In the village of Merkava in the central district two soldiers were injured by exchanges of fire, and battles raged for long hours, during which a further eight soldiers were lightly to moderately wounded.

The last serious incident on Thursday took place in the village of Labona in the western region not far from the coast. A number of anti-tank missiles were fired at forces operating in area, and vehicles and a tank were struck, killing one tank crew member and injuring another seriously.

They were in a Merkava Siman 2 tank.

It's already clear that one of the most important aspects to be checked after the war is the issue of firing missiles at armored vehicles
in general tanks specifically," a ground forces source told Ynet. "We'll check the whole issue of protection, and we'll analyze every incident. There will be conclusions with impact on future developments, on defense systems. We won't hesitate to check if someone was too complacent. Up to now 30 vehicles have been hit, and we lost soldiers in some of them. We must and need to check ourselves," he said.
 

FreeAsia2000

Junior Member
Thougth raising good points in general strategical aspects of this current warfighting, the article presented in this post was considerd as too political and Therefore I deleted it of

Gollevainen, Moderator
 
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utelore

Junior Member
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Here is some info on the TOW ATGW used by the U.S army that I have some limited experience with. I have never fired the weapon However I have "played" with it and used its sites to confirm hits on tank gunnery exercises in Fort Hood Texas. this pertains to the thread because the TOW is being used by both sides in this war.

First the optics and the movement of the optics to the target is first rate. There is not alot of play and its very very tight movement. You almost just have to think were you want the cross hair and with easy movement with your hand it will go there. Very clear cross hair with great zoom level. One of the biggest problems when you fire the missile is that many gunners will try and "pick" up the missile on the optics due to the missile dropping when leaving the Tube this may cause the wire to break or the missile to hit the ground. You just have to keep the cross hair on target and you will hit it every time unless the wire is broken and the missile goes "stupid" Tracking moving Targets is easier and better that tracking a moving target with the Abrams as there is much more play in the Abrams and with a twitch you can over play the target.
 

googeler

New Member
IMO the high number of tank losses is due to the fact that the IDF is very reluctant to provide appropriate helicopter gunship cover for its armoured elements. They lost 3 Apaches rather quickly at the begining of the conflict and don't seem eager to use them as they should. Hezbollah is known to have MANPADS, the third Apache (a D model) was apparently shot down by one.
 

crazyinsane105

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Hezbullah has claimed that it hit and destroyed an Israeli patrol boat. The Israelis denied it and I would tend to beleive them, but a Lebanese TV image showed a picture of a boat in the distance on fire. It doesn't seem like the Saar 5 from last time because the boat that was "hit" today seems to be much farther away from the coastline...
 

utelore

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Googler were did you get you info on these aircraft "shot down" I am aware of 2 cobras crashing into eachother but I am not aware of AH-64 losses.

The main reason for the lower use of attack Helo is that Israel only has 95 in service unlike the U.S which has more than 1,200 armed attack Helos. When you take into account the need to service and rotate aircraft and crews it is very hard to give 100% attack Helo packages/coverage on a battalion level of operations which the U.S can do because of the logistic's and amount of attack helos the U.S posses.

WOOOOOOOOOW. ISREAL REJECTS DEAL AND LAUNCHES GROUND OPERATION THERE ARE REPORTS THAT SYRIA IS MOVING AND CLEARING ITS FRONT LINE AREAS OF MINES AND TROOP MOVEMENTS ARE REPORTED TOWARD THE LEBANON AND ISRAEL BORDER
 

googeler

New Member
Googler were did you get you info on these aircraft "shot down" I am aware of 2 cobras crashing into eachother but I am not aware of AH-64 losses.

I said that a third Apache was shot down, the other two helicopters which collided were also Apaches. See link:
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I believe the Ah-64D was shot down because I saw footage of the main rotor with 3 blades still attached crashing at some distance from the main crash site, where the remains of the AH-64D were burning. Looks like combat damage to me (MANPADS).
Here's the scene at full speed:
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and in slow motion:
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Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
Israeli forces today struggled to secure strategic hills close to the border town of Metulla, despite weeks of bombardment and days of fighting.
Dozens of tanks withdrew from hills close to the Lebanese Christian village of Marjayoun this morning and repeatedly came under anti-tank fire as they approached the border. One tank was set ablaze by a missile within a quarter of a mile of the village. The crew climbed on to another tank and were driven to safety.

As more tanks returned, pumping out smoke for cover, several more missiles were fired, narrowly missing their targets and setting light to scrub on the valley floor. A tank crew extinguished the fire in the damaged tank and towed the blackened vehicle to Metulla as Israeli artillery fired shells around it to create dust clouds for cover.

Israeli troops succeeded in taking control of one ridge east of Metulla. Scores of soldiers could be seen standing on the ridge next to a quarry, looking at the action in the valley below.

On a ridge west of Metulla, Hizbullah fighters fired anti-tank missiles, which resembled red darts, across the valley, exploding in a ball of fire on impact.

Throughout the night the valleys were illuminated and shaken by an endless bombardment. Tracer fire and rockets could be seen in the darkness.

There were reports of deaths and casualties in the fighting around Metulla but the Israeli army refused to comment until relatives had been informed.

The problems involved in taking control of the hills close to Metulla are the same all along the border. Although 10,000 troops and hundreds of tanks are deployed, Hizbullah fighters can easily evade them and attack when convenient.

"It is very difficult for a hundred tanks to find small teams of three or four men running over the hillside," said one soldier in Metulla.

According to reports, Israel is trying to remedy its failure to flush out Hizbullah fighters with air strikes and tanks by sending infantry into the villages on foot. Reuters quoted witnesses who saw Israeli troops moving on foot through Marjayoun about five miles inside Lebanon and neighbouring villages.

"I can see two tanks burning some 500 metres from Marjayoun," one resident told the news agency by telephone.

A third tank arrived later and removed several casualties, he said, adding that Hizbullah fighters were raining rocket and mortar fire on the Israeli force between Marjayoun and Khiam.

Both villages are dominated by Christian Maronites who were allied with Israel until it withdrew from Lebanon in 2000.

Hizbullah said in a statement it had destroyed 11 Israeli tanks, killing or wounding their crews in the fighting.

Israel has lost 82 soldiers in the fighting. Yesterday it lost 15, the highest number of fatalities in a single day.

The government decided to expand its operations in Lebanon, allowing the army to move to the Litani river, 18 miles inside Lebanon. However, there is growing dissent within Israel about the war's conduct.

Danny Yatom, a reservist general and senior member of the Labour party, said that moving deeper into Lebanon was pointless. "We are banging our head against the wall," he told Israeli TV. "And even if we reach the Litani, the Katyushas won't stop."

Some 160 rockets were fired at Israel yesterday and the pattern continued today. One rocket hit an Israeli Arab village, killing a two-year-old and an adult.

So far, the fighting has killed 120 Israelis, including 38 civilians. In Lebanon, officials say 711 people have been killed. The death toll among Hizbullah fighters remains unclear


WEST GALILEE, Israel - Major Lior Taylor is no stranger to combat in Lebanon. He served in an anti-tank platoon in the famed Golani Brigade in the years following Israel's first invasion in 1982.

Now, at 38, Taylor is one of the operations officers for the Israeli army's 609th Reserve Infantry, a unit that has already seen plenty of action in south Lebanon, reportedly killing 60 Hezbollah fighters and capturing 10 — so far — without losing a single soldier of its own.


"It's the same Lebanon, it's the same terrain," he says. "The difference is in the quantity and quality of the weapons we face."



Israeli reserve troops await orders that would make them part of Israel's ground offensive in Lebanon» View


Most deadly for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), Taylor says, is the broad range of anti-tank missiles Hezbollah has acquired, including American-made TOWs, which they buy on the black market.


"Some of the stuff they have is brand new, right out of the box," says Taylor. "We found a weapons cache in Ras Bayada, four TOW anti-tank missiles sitting right next to a launcher. The control box was still wrapped in nylon from its shipping container."


Trained in using the TOW, Taylor says he did the standard seven-point check for launching and within moments the weapon was ready to fire.


He says fighting Hezbollah is anything but straightforward. They are a militia, but have the discipline of a foreign-trained army, which is how the IDF classifies them.


"They're not just a terrorist organization," says General Ido Nehushtan at an IDF briefing in northern Israel Thursday. "They are a terrorist army built by Syria and Iran."

"It's complicated," Taylor adds, speaking from personal experience. "It's not army versus army warfare. They do have an organized fighting doctrine but it's not based on making contact. It's more of guerrilla warfare tactics. They want to draw you into an area where they have booby traps and they can use their anti-tank missiles."


Those anti-tank missiles have been blamed for the bulk of IDF casualties in southern Lebanon, as Hezbollah fighters have used them both against tanks but also against houses and buildings where IDF forces take shelter.


Taylor says the one tactical area where the IDF has been particularly effective is also the area where they've been the most criticized: Attacks on villages where they believe Hezbollah supplies are stockpiled.


"The villages are used as logistic bases," he says, "but they usually fight from bunkers in outlying areas. They have tunnel systems with camouflaged entry points where they can enter in one place and exit somewhere else. We've been fairly successful at cutting off the supplies from the villages, which forces them to come out eventually."


The way to fight Hezbollah, he says, is to outlast them in a war of nerves.


"The name of the game is patience," says Taylor. "You have to be methodical, moving forward slowly and see who makes the first mistake, then capitalize on it."


At this base in western Galilee, reserve soldiers lay in cots in the operations center catching some sleep between missions. Others play cards outside or, like soldiers all over the world, sit around smoking cigarettes, talking about their lives back home.


Most of them had to leave their work and families behind quickly after getting what's called "Emergency Call Up Order 8," the order that almost instantly transformed them from civilians to soldiers.


IDF spokesman and reservist Manny Socolovsky, who fought with Taylor in the Golani Brigade in the 80s, says that reservists call it "flipping the bowl."


"It's like you have this nice table set," says Socolovsky, "plates and napkins and nice bowls filled with food. Then all of a sudden they're turned upside down and the whole thing is a mess. Like you've pulled out the tablecloth from under it all."

"Emergency Call Up Order 8 — this is a rare animal that is both particular and peculiar to Israeli society," says Taylor. "It's understood they don't use this for superfluous reasons. If you get one, the gravity of it makes the switch for you.

"It's not an easy moment." he says. "It's a defining moment in your life. It will be the difference between everything that came before and everything that came after."

A month into the offensive, Taylor himself looks tired and war-weary.

He has left a job with a multi-national company, a wife and three children back home in Haifa for a life of combat missions in the hills and valleys of south Lebanon and "hot-racking" back at base — sleeping in shifts on whatever cot is available.

Still, he believes the sacrifices are not only worth it, but essential for the preservation of Israel.

"This is like a test case," Taylor says. "[Hezbollah] interprets an open society as a weak society. Our response has to be definitive."


Israeli reserve units: civilians turned soldiers» View

Socolovsky agrees and brings up what Israelis refer to as the "cobweb speech" made by Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah a few years back in the city of Bent Jbail.

"He said Israel was like a cobweb," says Socolovsky, "that it looks like a net, but if you touch it with your hand it falls apart."

The two reservists say Israel can't afford to let that perception go unchallenged.

Socolovsky, like Taylor, is making sacrifices, but his are even more personal. His oldest son is in a combat brigade currently fighting inside Lebanon. As a spokesman, Socolovsky could stay in a hotel room in northern Israel, but chooses to sleep in his car and eats only one meal a day, breakfast, out of a sense of solidarity with his son. He says he would change places with him if he could.

"My wife says she got a [text] message from him today," Socolovksy says. "Now we're both relieved."

It is the kind of anxiety and concern that afflicts all in this conflict, regardless of their role and which side of the border they're on.

"If there's one thing that pains me about all this," says Taylor, becoming circumspect, "it's the fate of the Lebanese people. Medieval-thinking forces have dragged them into this. If they could be masters of their own destiny, I know there would be peace. But instead of progress and enlightenment these forces drag the Lebanese into darkness."

On the roof of the operations center, covered with machine gun and 40mm grenade shell casings, we look across the valley into south Lebanon.

Taylor points out a pile of rubble on a hilltop in Lebanon directly across from us with an Israeli flag flying above it. He says it used to be a Hezbollah command post, which the IDF destroyed when the fighting broke out.

Regardless of that small victory, this war is still on the cusp. As Israel masses tanks, armored personnel carriers and soldiers along the border, it has decided to pause for a few days before committing them to the fight, giving diplomacy one final chance to gain traction.

And even if it does, people like Taylor and Socolovsky may not be going back to their civilian lives anytime soon.

"This is not a war for days or weeks," Nehushtan said during his briefing. "This is a war against terrorism. And since Hezbollah has no responsibilities to any country, you won't see them waving any white flags."

These articles describe the fighting.

Apparently the powers at the UN finally agreed on a resolution. This happened a couple of minutes ago.

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Key U.N. Security Council members have agreed on a resolution to end Israel's month-old war with Hizbollah and a vote was possible later on Friday, British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said.

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An Israeli political source said Prime Minister Ehud Olmert was reviewing the draft resolution. Earlier in the day, Israel ordered an expansion of its ground offensive and said it would press ahead with the campaign if it was unhappy with any deal.

Israeli tank forces were preparing for orders to sweep into Lebanon after the wider offensive was approved, Israeli TV said.

"We have an agreed text," Beckett told reporters, adding she hoped that Israel and Lebanon would abide by it. She said the full Security Council would receive the draft at 1900 GMT.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice flew to New York in anticipation of a vote on ending the war, in which at least 1,030 people in Lebanon and 123 Israelis have been killed.

She was set to meet U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, the United Nations said. French officials said Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy was en route to the United Nations.

A senior Lebanese political source said Lebanese leaders had made progress in talks with a U.S. official in Beirut and Beirut had no further major objections to the proposed deal.

Israel's Channel 10 quoted Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni as telling Rice by telephone earlier on Friday that Israel's acceptance of the resolution "could not be taken for granted."

Israel's security cabinet had authorized expanding the ground war on Wednesday, with some talking of a 30-day push deeper into Lebanon. But ministers had later said the expansion was put on hold to allow more time for diplomacy.

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said in Beirut that if a deal was not reached this week: "It would not be a short war, it would be a long war ... that would be very dangerous."

NO LET-UP IN VIOLENCE

There was no immediate let-up in the violence in Lebanon and Israel. Air raids killed another 19 people in Lebanon. An Israeli soldier was reported killed in fighting and Hizbollah rockets wounded seven people in northern Israel.

Israeli raids on a bridge near the border with Syria killed 12 people and wounded 18, hospital staff said. Witnesses said a second strike hit the bridge 15 minutes after the first had brought rescuers rushing to the scene.

Israeli strikes killed two people in the eastern Bekaa Valley and five in south Lebanon, security sources said.

An Israeli soldier was killed and one was badly wounded in fighting with Hizbollah guerrillas, Al Arabiya television reported. The Israeli army had no immediate comment.

More bombs hit Beirut's battered Shi'ite Muslim suburbs, hours after dawn raids on the capital. Many people fled the suburbs on Thursday after Israel dropped warning leaflets.

Hizbollah, whose seizure of two Israeli soldiers sparked the war on July 12, fired more than 55 rockets into Israel, wounding seven people, police and ambulance staff said.

Humanitarian agencies sought ways to get aid to an estimated 100,000 people trapped in southern Lebanon and the mayor of Tyre said the city could run out of food in two days.

Aid convoys have been unable to deliver supplies since an Israeli air strike hit a bridge on the Litani River on Monday.

A deal on a resolution had been delayed over the timing of an Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon. Lebanon wanted a quick Israeli pullout, but Israel had said a strong multinational force must be deployed first.

The latest compromise calls for a phased Israeli withdrawal as the Lebanese army moves into the south. At the same time, the U.N. Interim Force in Lebanon would be reinforced by up to 15,000 French and other troops.

As part of the deal, Hizbollah would pull out from south of the Litani River, 20 km (13 miles) from the Israeli border.

A second resolution on a permanent ceasefire would follow within a month, tackling a range of outstanding issues, including the release of the two soldiers held by Hizbollah.
 
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