USN Burke Class - News, Reports, Data, etc.

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Jeff Head, Sep 26, 2012.

  1. Bltizo
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    Bltizo Moderator
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    Jeff, do you expect all 20 Flight III Burkes to have been completed and commissioned by the mid 2020s?

    From my own reading, I've seen that the 7th Flight IIA tech insert Burke (USS John Basilone) is expected to be commissioned in 2022, followed by another Flight IIA tech insert, followed finally by the first Flight III Burke which will probably enter service in 2023-2024?
    http://navaltoday.com/2016/08/15/us...after-medal-of-honor-recipient-john-basilone/
    (edit: USN says the first Flight III Burke will enter service in 2023: http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=2100&tid=200&ct=2 "This development effort is planned for fielding on new construction AEGIS DDG 51 Flight III ships that will enter service in 2023.")

    Assuming a 20 ship production run for Flight III Burke, I imagine they will probably finish production and commission all Flight III Burkes near the end of the 2020s, if not the very early 2030s, rather than the mid 2020s. The Tico cruisers would probably begin retirement by that time as well, which would allow the Flight III Burkes to replace them.

    Also, regarding the Chinese Navy's frigate fleet, I personally expect a much larger number of frigates than 30 by 2025; considering they've already got 22 054As in service and another three fitting out (and more likely under construction), I can imagine they will reach 28 or so 054As commissioned by 2018, assuming three ships commissioned per year between now and then.
    Assuming a new 054B design begins construction in 2019 two years after the last 054A (say, the 28th) is launched which would probably be next year/2017, and assuming that construction and commissioning of 054B occurs at a slightly lower pace than 054A (say, 2 per year instead of 3-4 per year), I can envision about 8 054Bs being in service by 2025, which would make a total frigate fleet of about 36.
     
    #161 Bltizo, Aug 20, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
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  2. FORBIN
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    FORBIN Lieutenant General
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    No right now 84 + 2 AB/year in addition up to 2020 + 3 Zumwalt but after Ticonderoga retired and later AB so max 97 and USN don't have budget for maintain more as China... we not during Cold War with budget about the double than now.

    AB get a life time of 35 years as Ticonderoga extended seems to 45 for eleven, same number than CVN for provide 1 by ESG, IIRC AB IIA 40 years.
     
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  3. Jeff Head
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    Jeff Head General
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    First Flight IIA restart Burke DDG, USS John Finn, DDG-113, going through its sea trials:



    The other two "restart" Burkes have already been launched, 114 and 115.

    That makes 65 Burkes now launched. Two Zumwalt launched. Also 22 Ticonderogas launched, and 13 LCS launched.

    Add all of those up and right now the US has 101 major combatants (FFG, DDG, CG) in the water.
     
    #163 Jeff Head, Sep 3, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
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  4. FORBIN
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    FORBIN Lieutenant General
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    2 new names and the list is full right now :)


    Flight IIA Restart
    PCU John Finn (DDG 113), Under construction (Ingalls Shipbuilding) expected in September 2016
    PCU Ralph Johnson (DDG 114), Under construction (Ingalls Shipbuilding) expected in January 2017
    PCU Rafael Peralta (DDG 115), Under construction (Bath Iron Works) expected in July 2016 or 2017

    Flight IIA Technology Insertion

    PCU Thomas Hudner (DDG 116), Under construction (Bath Iron Works) expected in May 2017
    PCU Paul Ignatius (DDG 117), Under construction (Ingalls Shipbuilding) expected in January 2018
    PCU Daniel Inouye (DDG 118), Under construction (Bath Iron Works) expectedin November 2018
    Delbert D. Black (DDG 119), Contract awarded (Ingalls Shipbuilding) expected in July 2019
    Carl M. Levin (DDG 120), Contract awarded (Bath Iron Works) expected in January 2020
    Frank E. Petersen Jr. (DDG 121)
    John Basilone (DDG 122)
    Lenah H. Sutcliffe (DDG 123)

    Flight III
    Harvey C. Barnem Jr. (DDG 124)
    Jack H. Lucas (DDG 125)
    Louis H. Wilson Jr (DDG 126)
     
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  5. Jeff Head
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    Eight under construction and six more named and in the pipeline.

    Those eight all to be launched before the end of 2020...and maybe one or two more perhaps.

    Also now three Burke IIIs named. Outstanding!

    DDG-126 gets us out to a total of 76 Burkes.
     
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  6. Jeff Head
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    USS Rafael Peralta, the 65th Burke DDG, passes acceptance Trials


    uss-rafael-peralta-001.jpg

    They have the building of these magnifant destroyers down to an art. Notice it was laid down in 2014 and Christened a year later. Bath is working on 3 more, with three more on order after that.

    Ingalls is building the same number.

    Once they start into the Flight III ships, you can expect 12-20 of them, the Burk IIs to be built, depending on where the Navy is with the CGX. IMHO, tey should get along with the CGX so as to minimize the number of Burke IIs needed.
     
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  7. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Colonel

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    The AB hull forms are excellent that why the Navy keeps building them. Once the FLT III ships come online you will see the FLT. I ships getting decom. By then they would've served admirably for 30 and over years.

    I look forward to the FSC studies which should wrap up in the initial stages pretty soon. The USN is currently going through a fundamental change in preparing their assets to counter new threats in the next couple of decades. I believe we will see new a new class of destroyer design and forms with modular components and new power generation in the 2030s to run alongside the Burkes.

    I would not be surprise if it looks somewhat like a mini Zumwalt but with more conventional overlays. The key is to keep cost down. Zumwalt was suppose to replace the Tico's but her exorbitant cost doomed her. A lot of USN's budget will go towards the SSBN replacement in the next decade or so.
     
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  8. Jeff Head
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    A lot of the cost can be attributed to a decades old trick, where particularly progressive liberals, but also some others, including GOP, who get caught up in the political lobbyist game.

    They agree upfront to a large number of equipment, in this case vessels, to replace an aging class. Then they allow the money to be spent on the new tech...a lot of money...but then cut the numbers so drastically that the cost per vessel/item is so high that they can then justify cutting it at that level.

    The Zumwalt class fell prey to this game.

    The Ford may fall prey to it.

    If we have built 30, or even 20 of the Zumwlts, the price per item would ahve been drasticall reduced. You have to allow the manf. to cover the R&D costs and on something like the Zumwalt, or Ford where you ar breaking all sorts of new ground to keep the vessel out on the cuttng edge. But when they do not do that, they can get the public, who do not knw the details, behind a campagn to thwart it.

    For particular lobbyists, this allows them to come in with their manufacturer who is proposing a less constly (and less capable) upgrade to and existing hull form, or less capable one, and then go away with money in their pocket, and a lot of money donated to the pol de jure.

    I hate to see it happen, but it is an old game and the only way to defeat it is to get a majoority of people with integrity and commitment to the services and their improvement in office.

    As well, I might add, as someone like Trump in an executive position who knows how to deal with these companies and still ride shotgun on pricing.

    Same thing happened to the B-2, stopping it at 20 units and then complaining about the cost per unit, and a similiar excuse was made to cut the F-22 at 184 units.

    I magine f we had 400 F-22s, 125 B-2s, 30 Zumwalts, with a follow on class coming in now for another 20 hulls of the same outfitted though as a CGs.

    Oh well...I've said my piece.
     
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  9. kwaigonegin
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    kwaigonegin Colonel

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    I don't know about Trump. He has already threaten to severely cut the F35 procurement and my sources at Boeing had mention he is not well like there LOL.

    With that being said I do agree with you in principle. Basically just economies of scale like anything else but aside from that a lot of the cost actually goes to overhead and inefficiencies.
    Someone sees a shiny new project like the Zumwalt and things suddenly increase 10, 20 fold. Like you said a lot of it goes to the integrity the people involved and everyone up and down the supply chain. Many, unfortunately take the opportunity to bloat the cost on new projects for government chargeback in terms of itemized products and time involved.

    For example, one of the delays for Zumwalt was also the lack of qualified electricians at BIW to work on both the Burkes and the Zumwalts. This seemingly trivial delay caused massive cost overruns which in turn caused a bottleneck in both lines for Zumwalts and the AB restarts. BIW finally decided to get guys from HII, but the BIW union workers also vehemently opposed those moves. Stupid things like this happens everyday and the taxpayer pays for it.

    All these lil things when combined together consequently adds up to delays and massive cost overruns.
     
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  10. Jeff Head
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    I believe Trump will work things out fine for the F-35. The price has been coming down just as Lockheed said it would...and it is doing so because the US and our allies are following through with the orders and the number of aircraft are driving it down.

    Trump will try and get more cost savings like any good executive will...and he will use the principles contained in the Art of the Deal to do so.
    The Pols and military contractors are not used to that type of dealing and they will come together...and with the uptick he is calling for in the military, he will be able to make everyone happy...but he will also drive a hard bargain.

    That will be good up and down the line...including for Boeing.
     
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