US to sell Taiwan 421 million US dollars worth of missiles

Saw this on yahoo today:



US to sell Taiwan 421 million US dollars worth of missiles

30 minutes ago

TAIPEI (AFP) - The US

Department of Defense has notified Congress that it plans to sell Taiwan missiles worth 421 million US dollars, which would help boost the island's defenses against rival China.


The proposed sale will include 218 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air missiles (AMRAAM), 235 Maverick missiles, as well as spare parts and maintenance equipment, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said in a statement.

"The proposed sale will help improve the security of the recipient and assist in maintaining political stability, military balance, and economic progress in the region," the agency said.

Acquisition of AMRAAM and Maverick missiles, a move sure to irk Beijing, will help Taiwan "modernize its armed forces and enhance its defence ability to counter air and ground threats," it said.

The missiles will be used to arm Taiwan's F-16 fleet, the backbone of its air force.

Taiwan for the first time in 2000 purchased from the United States 120 AIM-120s, which have a range of 50 kilometres (31 miles) and are equipped with advanced guidance systems.

But delivery of the weaponry was delayed to 2003 after China acquired weaponry of similar capabilities -- Russian-made AA-12 missiles.

China has repeatedly protested to the US over its policy of selling weapons to Taiwan, which Beijing considers part of its territory to be reunified by force if necessary.

The United States is committed to providing Taiwan with defensive weaponry in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act despite its switching of political recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979.

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From ROCAF military point of view, they really need these AMRRAMs. But I think the price ($421 million) is way too high for this batch? Internet sources quote AIM-120's at $300,000 to $386,000 USD each, and the AGM-65 at "up to" $160,000 USD each. How much could support/maintenance equipment and training cost on top??

Unless there's something that wasn't mentioned in the deal, Taiwan got ripped off for the missiles, like they always do.

That said, the missiles are key to preserving Taiwan's ability to defend itself against a Chinese invasion, we've been long complaining about the stupidity of having more F-16s than AMRAAMs. Still, that's only about 300 missiles, enough for 2 on each aircraft. That's a pretty uncomfortable margin to work with should conflict arise. The fact that the missiles are C-7 is a definite improvement, though.

The increased batch of Mavericks is interesting as well - I would have expected/preferred a purchase of Harpoons if the goal was to stop a Chinese sea invasion, Mavericks are best at busting tanks... which perhaps says something about Taiwan's defense goals.

From the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency; issued Feb. 28, 2007...

The Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States has requested a possible sale of 218 AIM-120C-7 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs), AMRAAM Missiles - Instrumented, AMRAAM Captive Air Training Missiles (CATMs), 48 LAU-129A Launchers, 235 AGM-65G2 Maverick Missiles, 4 TGM-65G Maverick Training Missiles, aircraft modification and integration, spares and repair parts, support and test equipment, maintenance and pilot training, software support, publications and technical documents, U.S. Government and contractor technical assistance, and other related elements of logistics and program support.

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So in addition the deal provides "Captive Air Training Missiles". I have no idea what that means, could anyone elaborate?

LAU129 rockets, Maverick training missiles, aircraft modification (ROCAF's F-16s may be incompatible with new AIM-120C-7 software?)... I'm curious to see what logistics and program support means.

Price aside, this is probably one of the better purchases the ROCAF could make at this time.

The_Zergling said:

Unless there's something that wasn't mentioned in the deal, Taiwan got ripped off for the missiles, like they always do.

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Apparently there are several dozen launchers and all the related equipment in there too. But Taiwan always pays more so it's hardly a surprise.

Still, that's only about 300 missiles, enough for 2 on each aircraft. That's a pretty uncomfortable margin to work with should conflict arise.

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338.

I think this shows Taiwan is looking for batch orders to stop them becoming obsolete at the same time. I think it has a few years to place orders like this - certainly until after the Olympics and maybe even the World Expo.

The increased batch of Mavericks is interesting as well - I would have expected/preferred a purchase of Harpoons if the goal was to stop a Chinese sea invasion, Mavericks are best at busting tanks... which perhaps says something about Taiwan's defense goals.

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Of course Taiwan does plan to attack an invasion group as it approaches the island, but it may believe it needs extra airborne ground-support more than the ability to fire off extra Harpoons from the air. After all they've been investing in land-based launchers for the HF-III.

I'm sure the MND is placing orders according to their priorities.

As a side-note, does anyone know the price difference between Mavericks and Harpoons?

ROCAF's F-16s may be incompatible with new AIM-120C-7 software?

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I've read elsewhere that the ROCAF will be fully able to use the new missiles.

Does anyone know the price differences between Mavericks and Harpoons?

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Did you mean AMRAAM?? Harpoon? Do they still make them?

Global Security sez the cost is.

Maverick is $129,332 each.

AMRAAM is $386,000 each

Harpoon is $474,609 each.

I don't know how much spare parts, test equipment etc the ROC recieved in the deal but I do know that the retail cost of just the missiles is about $115 million USD...Humm I wonder if the US threw in a couple of F-15 & F-16's. Ripped offed? Oh hell yes.....

FuManChu said:

338 missiles.

I think this shows Taiwan is looking for batch orders to stop them becoming obsolete at the same time. I think it has a few years to place orders like this - certainly until after the Olympics and maybe even the World Expo.

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I used the estimate of 300 because doubtless some of the previous missiles have already been used for training and what not. Still, it's roughly 2 missiles an aircraft.

It makes sense for Taiwan to use batch orders and not buy say, 1000 at once because that would increase the chances of them becoming outdated, outliving their shelf life. Another order in 2008 would be wise, I suppose.

After taking a closer look at the figures... the price tag is absurdly high. One wonders about true US commitment to the island's self defense... (looking at Israel)

bd popeye said:

Global Security sez the cost is.

Maverick is $129,332 each.

AMRAAM is $386,000 each

Harpoon is $474,609 each.

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Assuming those figures are right, that may be one reason why Mavericks were chosen - cheaper to get a large number than a smaller number of Harpoons.

The_Zergling said:

After taking a closer look at the figures... the price tag is absurdly high. One wonders about true US commitment to the island's self defense... (looking at Israel)

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But the US doesn't have China screaming every time it approves a sale/military aid to Israel - the Arabs are generally still reliant on US help themselves, so there's not that much opposition there. Plus the US is Taiwan's only arms supplier, so it can get away with charging more.

That said I have read about some other deals the US had where the missile packages approved seemed very high because of "optional extras" thrown in. Unless you have a full breakdown of the per item cost it's not sensible to read too much into these sort of things. Taiwan has to pay more for its weapons, and that's the way it just is.

Well I would have to say this a good thing for the ROCAF. They have a severe shortage of missles,, at most of what they have is crappy Sidewinders with a range of what? 10 kilometers. They need AMRAAMs. OF course this would be absolutely useless if the agreement was on the earlier terms of keeping the missles in a warehouse in Hawaii to be delivered "on need". Like that's gonna happen.

I have two question about ROC, I guess this is a good place to ask.
How good was the medium ranged A2A missile taiwan designed by itself, the Sky sword II?
Is it possible that they fit the missile on the F-16 or even the Mirage 2000? Seems that would be huge boost to the Taiwan's self-defence capability.

optionsss said:

I have two question about ROC, I guess this is a good place to ask.
How good was the medium ranged A2A missile taiwan designed by itself, the Sky sword II?
Is it possible that they fit the missile on the F-16 or even the Mirage 2000? Seems that would be huge boost to the Taiwan's self-defence capability.

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Hmm....if the Sky Sword II was good, a better question is why is Taiwan wanting to buy AAM from the Americans (at a jacked up price) whent they could make their own?

The TC-2's seeker head is based on Motorola-Raytheon design, initially a competitor to the AIM-120 contract, which was later won by Hughes. CSIST is reported to have purchased 200 TC-2 seeker head "kits" from Raytheon. This lead to speculation that the ROCAF would have no more than 200 TC-2's in its inventory.

On March 17, 2004, Jane's Defense Weekly reported that CSIST had produced an air-launched anti-radiation (ARM) missile, named Tien Chien IIA (TC-2A). The TC-2A is reported to have a new seeker head and guidance package, possibly with dual-mode pasive RF and IR sensors, and an improved extended-range rocket motor. The updated missile, with its new seeker head, indicates that CSIST's TC-2/TC-2A production is not limited to the original Raytheon order.

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This is an article from the wikipedia. There was some additional information on the Chinese wiki. That basically stated the missile was handed over the military for testing purpose in 1994, and it took 2 years for the airfore to accept it. And they publicly announced the missile enter full production on 1997.