US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

Jeff Head

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Ingalls Shipbuilding said:
DOHA, Qatar, March 26, 2012 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Huntington Ingalls Industries (NYSE:HII) will participate in Doha's International Maritime Defense Exhibition and Conference (DIMDEX) this week, highlighting the new patrol frigate derivative of the company's proven U.S. Coast Guard National Security Cutter. The patrol frigate could be built at the company's Ingalls Shipbuilding facility in Pascagoula, Mississippi.

"The Ingalls patrol frigate design has already proven its seaworthiness in U.S. Coast Guard service," said Dan Holloway, HII's corporate vice president for customer relations. "Our analysis has shown there are foreign navies with requirements for patrol frigate capabilities and that this particular design will address naval multi-mission needs. The patrol frigate's technologically advanced ship features, coupled with Ingalls' experienced workforce and active construction line, will generate an affordable platform for a variety of potential customers."

In addition to its patrol frigate, Ingalls will highlight its long history of maintenance and overhaul support to the U.S. Navy, as well as its successful experience as one of the primary builders of DDG 51 destroyers.

Ingalls has delivered three National Security Cutters to the Coast Guard, and two more ships are currently under construction.

There are two patrol frigate variants: Patrol Frigate 4501 and Patrol Frigate 4921.

Patrol Frigate 4501 is closely aligned with the basic National Security Cutter hull with limited design changes. The ships are 127 meters (418 feet) long with a 16.5 meter (54 feet) beam and displace 4,600 tons with a full load. The ship has a 12,000-nautical mile range and can operate in speeds up through 28-plus knots. They have an endurance of 60 days and accommodations for 148. The ship includes an aft launch and recovery area for two rigid hull inflatable boats and a flight deck to accommodate a range of aircraft, with twin hangars for storage of one H-60 class helicopter and two rotary-wing unmanned aircraft. The ships are equipped with various sensors and surveillance systems as well as a 57-mm gun, a 20-mm close-in weapon system and six 50-caliber machine guns.

Patrol Frigate 4921 has additional mission capabilities for anti-aircraft, anti-submarine, anti-surface and mine-warfare provided by a 76-mm gun, a 12-cell vertical launch system, an anti-ship missile launcher and torpedo launcher, sonar dome and remote-controlled and manned 50-caliber machine guns. (Read more at the above link)

The National Security Cutter for the US Coast Guard (3 of 8 have been completed and delivered, 4th building, 5th awarded)
Nat Sec Cutter.jpg


The US Navy Patrol FFG 4921 proposal
USN Pat Frigate 4921.jpg


The US Navy Patrol FFG 4921 line art
FFG 4921 lineart.jpg


Hopefully the US Navy will accept this and build a couple of dozen of them to replace the Oliver Hazard Perry FFGs.
 

Scratch

Captain
It's a really nice design and there surely is a place for it in the international merket. Wich seems were Ingalls is aiming this. But for the USN, I'm not so sure.
While I think it's a good thing to have a proper frigate for sea lane patrolling and maybe some escorting, I wonder if that program will have a chance to get through.
Isn't the navy somehow trying to convince congress & so on that the LCS can also take on at least some of the roles of the OHP to justify buying the LCS in those numbers? Now coming back with a real FFG replacement might trigger some questions what the LCS is for then, after all.
And while I can see some merit here, I wonder if in the current situation it's enough for lawmakers to justify the extra funding, or if it's even opportune for the navy to ask for that right now.
 

CottageLV

Banned Idiot
1024px-USS_Independence_LCS-2_at_pierce.jpg


I think all USN ships should be styled after the Independence Class, what a work of art. This ship is now probably on the wall of every boy by now.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Hopefully the US Navy will accept this and build a couple of dozen of them to replace the Oliver Hazard Perry FFGs.

Don't think it's going to happen. Especially if the design is exported.

The LCS and more Arliegh Burkes will take the place of frigates.. along with the Coast Guard.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
I feel like the USN should build a few dozen of them to replace older frigates and use them for closer to home, low danger patrols. And these ships have a clearly defined mission as well, compared to the LCS mess.

Having an almost completely burke surface combatant fleet imho is overkill and almost unsustainable. You don't need those 9000 ton behemoths for low tension patrols. LCS would've been a step in the right direction if not for the massive delays and cost issues, desire for a jack of all trades (and thus master of none some would argue) ship, and formidable top speed but makes you wonder just how important that is.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
It's a really nice design and there surely is a place for it in the international market. Which seems were Ingalls is aiming this. But for the USN, I'm not so sure.
While I think it's a good thing to have a proper frigate for sea lane patrolling and maybe some escorting, I wonder if that program will have a chance to get through.
Isn't the navy somehow trying to convince congress & so on that the LCS can also take on at least some of the roles of the OHP to justify buying the LCS in those numbers? Now coming back with a real FFG replacement might trigger some questions what the LCS is for then, after all.
And while I can see some merit here, I wonder if in the current situation it's enough for lawmakers to justify the extra funding, or if it's even opportune for the navy to ask for that right now.
The problem with the LCS for general escort duties is that they are constrained by their mission packs. A good escort frigate needs to do several things:

1) Keep up with the carrier and not slow it down
2) Provide very good ASW screening for the carrier.
3) Serve as anti-air pickets while doing their ASW role so that they have a good short to mid-range self-defense and picket capability along the threat axis.
4) Be able to have a decent ASuW role as an all round combatant when they are escorting other vessels and showing the flag.

I believe the LCS can fulfill great roles in the lotroals, and may be able to fulfill a couple of those roles for escort duties when outfitted with the appropriate mission pack. But they really need to be more all round functional IMHOP for the carrier escort role.

Perhaps building some of the class as all-round fighters in a multi-function role would do the trick...or use these types of vessels to do the same. They are based on a known and existing design already in use with the USCG and that will help with costs.

Of course, so would a multi-role LCS that becomes a FFG. Both LCS designs have alternate designs for multi-mission.

Anyhow, the OHPs in their day had that capability and were good vessels. Then, rather than upgrade them like the Spanish, the Australians, and the ROC did, we simply took their launchers off and took away their anti-air and anti-surface capabilities. They could still be very good ASW escorts...but are being relegated more towards drug interdiction and other such missions.

BD Popeye said:
Don't think it is going to happen
I agree that under this admin it will definitely not, but under other admins who are interested in building the US Navy back up and giving our shipbuilding industry a boost, something like this, either this type thing, a alternate batch of LCS, or even taking twenty OHPs and updating/upgrading them might happen. I believe we still need things like FFGs, a replacement for the S-3s, a V-22 AEW and ASW variant, more Zumwalts, a replacement for the F-14, a replacement for the AIM-54 like the ALRAAM, etc., etc.

Oh well, I fellow can have his goody bag wish I suppose.
 
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Scratch

Captain
Yeah, I agree that the LCS is insufficient as a full up escort. They'd be most usefull as independent, forward deployed assets clearing choke points a CSG has to pass of assymetric threats (mines, small boat swarm raiders).
A new, affordable FFG could allow to put more assets in a CSG / SAG to form a tighter ASW screen. Or do some anti piracy patrolling, freeing up high end Burkes from that duty.
I do see use for these ships, just don't think it's realistic right now, as they would have a rather low priority in a contrained budget.
Maybe some day one the the LCS designs will evolve into a FFG, wich would mean it would have to get bigger, though.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Maybe some day one the the LCS designs will evolve into a FFG, which would mean it would have to get bigger, though.
Lockheed and General Dynamics both already have multi-mission combatant versions of their LCS designs which offer the ability to perform all missions with no need for changing out mission packs.

Same hull, higher displacement.

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...and here would be my proposal, using the US Coast Guard, National Defense Cutter hull:

USN-LCS-Alternate.gif


BTW, this month, the US Government issued the contract for the fifth and sixth LCS for both GD and Lockheed, meaning 12 are now contracted and funded. An agreement for each to build 12 is already in place, so half of that total is now funded and in contract.
 
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Red___Sword

Junior Member
I have a noob question:

While most of time the coast guards are considered as some kind of civilian branch of law enforcement force, and internatioanl emergency aid sometimes needed at open seas - did that big ass main gun mounted on it which dwarfs some brown water NAVY, suitable to call it "civilian"?

While no need to point out "&&& is also doing the same", my point is, is there any international regulation defines the armament a civilian coastal guard ship can reach?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I have a noob question:

While most of time the coast guards are considered as some kind of civilian branch of law enforcement force, and internatioanl emergency aid sometimes needed at open seas - did that big ass main gun mounted on it which dwarfs some brown water NAVY, suitable to call it "civilian"?

While no need to point out "&&& is also doing the same", my point is, is there any international regulation defines the armament a civilian coastal guard ship can reach?

I don't know of any...but the US Coast Guard can also be called up for Naval service in war time, as it was during World War II. And with the increasing sophistication and armament of drug cartels, that level of 57mm gun would make the difference in a confrontation with a heavily armed, very rich drug cartel vessel that may have as big as a 20mm or 40mm weapon on it with RPGs, etc. or against will funded pirates or other crime elements.

The US Coast Guard is currently upgrading itself with these new cutters, three differents sizes, which have very modern comms and sensors, and better armament all around. The older large cutters actually had 5" and 76mm guns, so the size gun is actually smaller...but the capabilities it offers in terms of munitions, accuracuy, firing rate, and even range, make it much more effective for the USCG normal duties, as well as for wartime should that be necessary,
 
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