Ukraine Revolt/Civil War News, Reports, Data, etc.

Dannhill

Junior Member
Since we are on H.Res.758 here's another American view. Let us not forget that both World Wars were started in Europe.

Reckless Congress 'Declares War' on Russia

Today the US House passed what I consider to be one of the worst pieces of legislation ever. H. Res. 758 was billed as a resolution “strongly condemning the actions of the Russian Federation, under President Vladimir Putin, which has carried out a policy of aggression against neighboring countries aimed at political and economic domination.”

In fact, the bill was 16 pages of war propaganda that should have made even neocons blush, if they were capable of such a thing.

These are the kinds of resolutions I have always watched closely in Congress, as what are billed as “harmless” statements of opinion often lead to sanctions and war. I remember in 1998 arguing strongly against the Iraq Liberation Act because, as I said at the time, I knew it would lead to war. I did not oppose the Act because I was an admirer of Saddam Hussein – just as now I am not an admirer of Putin or any foreign political leader – but rather because I knew then that another war against Iraq would not solve the problems and would probably make things worse. We all know what happened next.

That is why I can hardly believe they are getting away with it again, and this time with even higher stakes: provoking a war with Russia that could result in total destruction!

If anyone thinks I am exaggerating about how bad this resolution really is, let me just offer a few examples from the legislation itself:

The resolution (paragraph 3) accuses Russia of an invasion of Ukraine and condemns Russia’s violation of Ukrainian sovereignty. The statement is offered without any proof of such a thing. Surely with our sophisticated satellites that can read a license plate from space we should have video and pictures of this Russian invasion. None have been offered. As to Russia’s violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, why isn’t it a violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty for the US to participate in the overthrow of that country’s elected government as it did in February? We have all heard the tapes of State Department officials plotting with the US Ambassador in Ukraine to overthrow the government. We heard US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland bragging that the US spent $5 billion on regime change in Ukraine. Why is that OK?

The resolution (paragraph 11) accuses the people in east Ukraine of holding “fraudulent and illegal elections” in November. Why is it that every time elections do not produce the results desired by the US government they are called “illegal” and “fraudulent”? Aren’t the people of eastern Ukraine allowed self-determination? Isn’t that a basic human right?

The resolution (paragraph 13) demands a withdrawal of Russia forces from Ukraine even though the US government has provided no evidence the Russian army was ever in Ukraine. This paragraph also urges the government in Kiev to resume military operations against the eastern regions seeking independence.

The resolution (paragraph 14) states with certainty that the Malaysia Airlines flight 17 that crashed in Ukraine was brought down by a missile “fired by Russian-backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine.” This is simply incorrect, as the final report on the investigation of this tragedy will not even be released until next year and the preliminary report did not state that a missile brought down the plane. Neither did the preliminary report – conducted with the participation of all countries involved – assign blame to any side.

Paragraph 16 of the resolution condemns Russia for selling arms to the Assad government in Syria. It does not mention, of course, that those weapons are going to fight ISIS – which we claim is the enemy -- while the US weapons supplied to the rebels in Syria have actually found their way into the hands of ISIS!

Paragraph 17 of the resolution condemns Russia for what the US claims are economic sanctions (“coercive economic measures”) against Ukraine. This even though the US has repeatedly hit Russia with economic sanctions and is considering even more!

The resolution (paragraph 22) states that Russia invaded the Republic of Georgia in 2008. This is simply untrue. Even the European Union – no friend of Russia – concluded in its investigation of the events in 2008 that it was Georgia that “started an unjustified war” against Russia not the other way around! How does Congress get away with such blatant falsehoods? Do Members not even bother to read these resolutions before voting?

In paragraph 34 the resolution begins to even become comical, condemning the Russians for what it claims are attacks on computer networks of the United States and “illicitly acquiring information” about the US government. In the aftermath of the Snowden revelations about the level of US spying on the rest of the world, how can the US claim the moral authority to condemn such actions in others?

Chillingly, the resolution singles out Russian state-funded media outlets for attack, claiming that they “distort public opinion.” The US government, of course, spends billions of dollars worldwide to finance and sponsor media outlets including Voice of America and RFE/RL, as well as to subsidize “independent” media in countless counties overseas. How long before alternative information sources like RT are banned in the United States? This legislation brings us closer to that unhappy day when the government decides the kind of programming we can and cannot consume – and calls such a violation “freedom.”

The resolution gives the green light (paragraph 45) to Ukrainian President Poroshenko to re-start his military assault on the independence-seeking eastern provinces, urging the “disarming of separatist and paramilitary forces in eastern Ukraine.” Such a move will mean many more thousands of dead civilians.

To that end, the resolution directly involves the US government in the conflict by calling on the US president to “provide the government of Ukraine with lethal and non-lethal defense articles, services, and training required to effectively defend its territory and sovereignty.” This means US weapons in the hands of US-trained military forces engaged in a hot war on the border with Russia. Does that sound at all like a good idea?

There are too many more ridiculous and horrific statements in this legislation to completely discuss. Probably the single most troubling part of this resolution, however, is the statement that “military intervention” by the Russian Federation in Ukraine “poses a threat to international peace and security.” Such terminology is not an accident: this phrase is the poison pill planted in this legislation from which future, more aggressive resolutions will follow. After all, if we accept that Russia is posing a “threat” to international peace how can such a thing be ignored? These are the slippery slopes that lead to war.

This dangerous legislation passed today, December 4, with only ten (!) votes against! Only ten legislators are concerned over the use of blatant propaganda and falsehoods to push such reckless saber-rattling toward Russia.

Here are the Members who voted “NO” on this legislation. If you do not see your own Representative on this list call and ask why they are voting to bring us closer to war with Russia! If you do see your Representative on the below list, call and thank him or her for standing up to the warmongers.

Voting “NO” on H. Res. 758:

1) Justin Amash (R-MI)
2) John Duncan (R-TN)
3) Alan Grayson, (D-FL)
4) Alcee Hastings (D-FL)
5) Walter Jones (R-NC)
6) Thomas Massie (R-KY)
7) Jim McDermott (D-WA)
8 George Miller (D-CA)
9) Beto O’Rourke (D-TX)
10 Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA)


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For some time I've been regularly following only hard-core :) servers, of both sides, of course ...

while following some nasty discussion on one of them (
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) I got to know the original name of Donetsk, Юзовка, comes from
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, meaning something like "The Place of Hughes"
(but there's no wiki page describing the history of Donetsk in English
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) ... in the meantime, Mr. Holland flew to Vnukovo Airport, Moscow, was talking to Mr. Putin there about the Ukraine Crisis (seems the meeting is over
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)
 

delft

Brigadier
while following some nasty discussion on one of them (
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) I got to know the original name of Donetsk, Юзовка, comes from
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, meaning something like "The Place of Hughes"
(but there's no wiki page describing the history of Donetsk in English
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) ... in the meantime, Mr. Holland flew to Vnukovo Airport, Moscow, was talking to Mr. Putin there about the Ukraine Crisis (seems the meeting is over
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)
I understand mining in the area was initiated by Scottish kapitalists in the late 18th century. That was said in an article that explained why the flag of Novorossia resembles the flag of the Confederation in the US civil war. Both are derived from the Scottish flag.
I just looked at what Le Monde says about the meeting of President Hollande and President Putin and that was little more than that it was taking place.
 
I understand mining in the area was initiated by Scottish kapitalists in the late 18th century. ...

oh really? now I checked Russian Mining Encyclopedia, entry Donbass
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which says in 1721
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began searching in the area, multiple coal deposits found during 1780s -- 1790s around today's town of
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, the production of the 1796-1806 period: 38700 tons ... no Scottish names though (and yandeks.ru and google searches only found "the Scottish referendum connection to Donbass" :)
any hint?
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
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Registered Member
Hughes is actually a Welsh name and this then is interesting as; like the Donbass, South Wales was for 200 years a Coal, Iron and Steel producing region and one of global importance.

It would come as no surprise that 18th or 19th Century Russians would call upon Welsh expertise (or indeed Scottish Industrial Capital) to develop a region with much Heavy Industrial potential and such expertise would have been considered world class at that time.

I am also sure that the proximity of the Donbass to the Shipyards and Docks of the Crimea would have been no coincidence.

This is all very fascinating but also completely off topic and so I suggest that we put further discussion aside and return to the civil/proxy conflict.
 

delft

Brigadier
oh really? now I checked Russian Mining Encyclopedia, entry Donbass
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which says in 1721
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began searching in the area, multiple coal deposits found during 1780s -- 1790s around today's town of
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, the production of the 1796-1806 period: 38700 tons ... no Scottish names though (and yandeks.ru and google searches only found "the Scottish referendum connection to Donbass" :)
any hint?
I just found a different story:
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History of Ukrainian Mining City of Donetsk [Coal-rich Donets/Donbas Basin]

This article is from:
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The year 1869 is traditionally referred to as the date of founding Donetsk (former Hughsofka). In contrast to many other large cities which were born of the advantages provided by geography and transportation, Donetsk sprang up and developed from a mining and metallurgical industry thanks to rich stores of minerals. In the upper regions of Kalmius river, where the city is located, there were large deposits of coal, and around the settlement of Alexandrovka, founded in 1779, the first coal mines appeared. The residents of other nearby settlements Semyonovka, Lyubimovka (Zakop), Nikolaevka, Ekaterinovka, Grigorievka (Georgievka), and Larinka also provided the labour force to work in the mines.

In 1866 Russian engineer A. Mevius proved the necessity of building iron works on the right bank of Kalmius, not far from Alexandrovka settlement. This site had everything that was necessary; in upper Kalmius there was coal; not far away in Karakuba (today the city of Komsomolsk, in Starobeshevskiy Region) there was iron ore; in the nearby village Elenovka there was lime; and right at hand was river water.

The Tsarist government was unable to deal properly with the land riches. And having estimated all possibilities for making huge profits on cheap coal by cheap labour, foreign concessionaires poured into Donbass. One of them was the English technician-metallurgist John James Hughes, a manager of a small plant near London. Having bought or leased the land at profitable terms, he made an agreement with the Committee of Russian Ministers to establish Novorossiysk Coal, Iron and Railway Society, and the Society of the Railway branch of Kharkov-Azov line.

In April 1869 the Tsarist government sanctioned an agreement of starting coal mining and building a metallurgy plant. Novorossiysk Society constitutors nominated John Hughes as the manager. In summer 1869 he settled down on Kalmius bank and built a smithy that became the first production line of the future metallurgical plant. Materials and equipment arrived to Taganrog and Mariupol from far-away England, to the building site being delivered by carting.

Close to the construction site local people built wooden barracks or huts of sandstone for workers. The English colony of engineers and masters was set up separately. The growing settlement was named Hughsofka, after the manager’s name. Later, Hughsofka merged with the mining settlement of Alexandrovka.
The story continues until just before the war.
 

Dannhill

Junior Member
Revisiting the Euromaiden sniper shooting of protesters and police.

Here's Why The Kiev Sniper Massacre Was a False Flag

In 1 October 2014, Ivan Katchanovski, a Professor of Political Science at the University of Ottawa and formerly a visiting scholar at the Davis Center for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Harvard University, presented the first academic paper to deal comprehensively with bloody day of February 20, 2014.

The paper, titled “The “Snipers’ Massacre” on the Maidan in Ukraine”, was presented at the Chair of Ukrainian Studies Seminar at the University of Ottawa.

In his paper Professor Katchanovski produces solid evidence for the argument that hired snipers were involved in shootings of protesters on Maidan, even if police forces are not to be absolved from blame for firing on protesters.

Indeed, a EU High Representative Catherine Ashton was caught on tape discussing with the Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet serious allegations that those who fired on the protesters in fact came from the opposition.

However, a full investigation has not been followed, nor has any Western government publicly called for such an investigation.

The new Kiev government’s investigation resulted in the arrest of three members of the Ukrainian riot police “Berkut” who were held accountable for the killings. One of the three disappeared, with the possibility that he was either killed or fled equally probable at this point.

Professor Katchanovski’s full paper can be found here and deserves to be studied and analyzed in great detail.

Only several key arguments will be provided in this article while those who wish to gain a deeper understanding of what took place are highly encouraged to read the report in full and view its evidence and documentation for themselves, especially as its many details seemed to have escaped the notice of the mainstream media.

Some Key Arguments:

The events of February 20th begun as “Berkut” and “Omega” police units halted the advance of protesters to the Zhovtnevyi Palace by shooting both live and rubber bullets, and later retreated (p. 4). Bullet traces indicate police fired on protesters (p. 5).

A video taken by the BBC depicts snipers who fired on protesters from the Hotel Ukraina, and the shooter was then identified as wearing a green helmet as those worn by Euromaidan protesters (p.7), traces and bullet holes also indicate the shooting came from the hotel (p.8).

At least 12 public buildings were occupied by snipers or spotters. The new Ukrainian Government’s investigation did not address these issues (p.5).

Snipers fired on both police and protesters (pp. 6-7). A commander of Berkut said that snipers from the hotel fired at his people (pp.8-9)

A radio report of the Alfa police commanders states that about ten people from the Music Conservatory went to the Dnipro Hotel with their arms hidden while another ten went to Hotel Ukraina.

This is confirmed by other radio exchanges (p.11). Radio exchanges were later juxtaposed by Euromaidan activists with other photos to present SBU snipers as responsible for the shooting (p.12).

However, the public video did not include other radio transmissions of police units regarding civilians who were carrying weapons in bags (p.12).

It appears that snipers targeted international journalists but not Euromaidan film crew (p.17)
Two leaders of the Svoboda party were near the Ukraina hotel during the shooting (p.18)

Maidan activists claimed that the Right Sector and other activists searched the hotel later that day but found no shooters (p.18)

Shortly after shootings carried out by snipers, representatives of the far-right Svoboda, Fatherland and the Radical Party, spoke at Maidan and accused the Yanukovich government of carrying out the massacre (p.19)

According to a statement by a EuroMaidan figure, 11 members of the “Berkut” police unit were wounded by snipers who fired from the Music Conservatory building. (p.21)

Witnesses claim that groups from West Ukraine took over the Music Conservatory building that day on the same morning and that some of them had guns (p.24)

On February 21, following the bloody shootings, Yanukovich was given an ultimatum to leave his position and subsequently fled (p.24)

The exact identity of the snipers or those who hired them is still unknown (p.26)

While video depicting Berkut police firing was used by Maidan as evidence that they fired at protesters, Ivan Katchanovski writes that “the analysis of the publicly available evidence is inconclusive whether Berkut and Omega killed any of the protesters, specifically unarmed ones, because there were other shooters killing the protesters at the same very time” (p.27).

There is no evidence of Yanukovich ordering police forces to shoot at protesters nor have radio transmissions of various police units suggested this , commanders of various police groups denied receiving such orders (p.27)
Katchanovski concludes by saying:

“The seemingly irrational mass shooting and killing of the protesters and the police on February 20 appear to be rational from self-interest based perspectives of rational choice and Weberian theories of instrumentally-rational action.

This includes the following: the Maidan leaders gaining power as a result of the massacre, President Yanukovych and his other top government officials fleeing on February 21, 2014 from Kyiv and then from Ukraine, and the retreat by the police.

The same concerns Maidan protesters being sent under deadly fire into positions of no important value and then being killed wave by wave from unexpected directions.

Similarly, snipers killing unarmed protesters and targeting foreign journalists but not Maidan leaders, the Maidan Self-Defense and the Right Sector headquarters, the Maidan stage, and pro-Maidan photographs become rational.

While such actions are rational from a rational choice or instrumentally-rational theoretical perspective, the massacre not only ended many human lives but also undermined democracy, human rights and the rule of law in Ukraine” (pp.28-29).
It remains to be seen whether Western governments and international organizations such as Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch will demand a full and impartial investigation.

In its account of the subsequent investigation carried out by Ukrainian Government following the massive bloodshed on Maidan, Human Rights Watch claimed that the new Interior Ministry believed that Ukraine’s riot police “Berkut” was behind the shooting while the writer did not adding a word of reservation or questioning the credibility of the given position.

Russia’s argument that snipers from the opposition could have been involved in the deadly shooting was accompanied by the writer with a word of caution, stating that “if true, this evidence should be shared with investigators”.

However, the findings in this article seem to suggest that the current Ukrainian Government has been failing its own citizens by not carrying out a thorough and impartial investigation and by blaming all of the killings that took place on the deposed government.

The people of Ukraine deserve a full investigation.

Thanks to Kristina Rus with her help with this article.

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Link to the study:

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Dannhill

Junior Member
A very good piece that explains how a numerically and quantitatively inferior force of militia could have fought a superior army to a stand still. I have much respect for the militia's use of those inaccurate GRAD rocket artillery that did most of the damage to Kiev forces.

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Shellback is the pseudonym of someone who started working for a NATO military structure in the Brezhnev years. He does not think that the Cold War was so much fun that we should try to repeat it.

The two decisive weapons of this war that have given victory to the rebels are the MANPADS (MAN Portable Air Defence System) and the Grad (“hail” in Russian).

Kiev had, at the beginning, complete air superiority; it may not have had very many helicopters and ground-attack fixed wing, but it had all that there were. Against these the rebels had stocks of the SA-7 shoulder-fired missile. Like many Soviet weapons it was modified and improved in incremental steps over its service life since the 1970s and produced in quite large numbers. It has an infra-red guidance system and is shoulder-fired. Like most weapons of this type, it is most effective against aircraft that are actually attacking the firer, ie when the angular momentum of the aircraft is low. According to this site, quoting the Kiev Post, Kiev lost ten helicopters and nine fixed-wing aircraft. The true number is likely higher but the point is that this weapon system effectively nullified the air superiority that the Kiev regime had; they either destroyed the aircraft or forced them to fly higher and faster and therefore be less effective. These weapons made the war into a ground war.

The real destruction of the Kiev forces – Ukraine President Poroshenko says two thirds of Ukraine’s military equipment was lost – was carried out by the BM-21 Grad MLRS. Another weapon system from decades ago, the Grad is a truck with 40 122mm rockets tubes at the rear. Not particularly accurate – it is what is known as an “area weapon” – the fact that all 40 rockets can be fired in 20 seconds means that after a few ranging rounds a terrifying amount of explosive can be delivered very quickly. Here are a lot of them firing in a demonstration. Here are some videos from the fighting in Ukraine. Grads firing at night – we see the ranging rounds and then the full salvo from two. Grad hits on the horizon. Ditto. This is what remains after a strike.

There are dozens of videos showing the destruction of Kiev forces trapped in a “cauldron” or котёл by Grads. As I've written previously, the bulk of the rebel forces are men who knew the area: the back roads, where this forest trail comes out, where that hill is and how to get there without being seen. The Kiev forces did not know the area and had ludicrously inadequate maps (one report spoke of maps from the 1920s) and bad information; thanks to their reliance on heavy equipment they stuck to the main roads. Their commanders were spectacularly incompetent, they themselves were either poorly motivated untrained forced conscripts unwilling to advance or gung-ho “volunteer” forces, pumped up with warrior fantasies, who charged down the road and got trapped. In either case, rebel spotter forces easily pinpointed their locations and called in the target. A few adjustment rounds, then a hundred or more rockets. This is what would happen, over and over and over and over again. All done by discreet spotter teams (here’s some film of “Motorola’s” group) and a few Grads within twenty kilometres or so.
 

Dannhill

Junior Member
Russia supplies 50,000 tons of coal to Ukraine. Strange helping hand for a country that threatens to send terrorists to attack Russia.

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Google Translated:

TO UKRAINE drove wagons with TONS OF RUSSIAN COAL Wagons with 50 thousand tons of Russian coal standing at the border, began to arrive in Ukraine, said the Ministry of Energy of the country, the website of RIA Novosti. Earlier Acting Minister of Energy and Coal Industry Yuriy Prodan said that the state Ukrainian energy company "Centrenergo" waiting to be sent to 200 railcars of coal that stuck on the border with Russia. According to the Ukrainian side, the supply of steam coal from Russia for the needs of thermal power plants DTEK businessman Rinat Akhmetov and the state company "Centrenergo" were suspended at the end of last week. However, a few days later they partially resumed.

Meanwhile, both Russian energy companies and Russian Railways denied that there are any restrictions or prohibitions on the supply of coal Ukraine. "Deliveries of coal to thermal power station resumed. Wagons with about 50 thousand tons of coal already sent to thermal power units for the needs of the power system. It is worth noting that this coal, which for several days has been blocked at the border with Russia, "- wrote a spokesman for the Ministry of Energy of Ukraine Elena Mishchenko in to Facebook.

Ukraine is experiencing a shortage of gas and coal for heat generation, and for the production of electricity. Gas saving the country due to reduced purchases in Russia, the lack of coal is related to the military operations in the Donets Basin, where most of the country's coal mines. On Monday, December 1, it became known that Kiev has decided to apply for the procurement of coal in Russia. TRK VN : It is obvious that all the coal in serious volumes contracted in Russia and produced for specific consumers already known.

Dramatically increase production without additional investment in coal mining is impossible. Therefore, with high probability it comes to trade with the Donbass coal disguised as Russian. It is clear that the Donbas needed funds to support the population, coal - not a weapon, and to support the industry and DNR LC afloat need. The question is whether the money for coal and they reach for people in the Donbas in the form of real help, and who on that will warm your hands.
 
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