UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by FuManChu, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Mr T
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    Mr T Senior Member

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    I have news for you. Lighter does not equal better. The Type 23 is a decent frigate. No one with any credibility has ever argued it's a bad frigate because it's larger than other frigates. Just as the Type 31 won't be bad because it's bigger than other frigates.

    Also, and I'm surprised you don't understand this, the bigger the ship the more flexible it is, because it can have a wider array of mission modules and equipment. Steel is cheap, so the cost of making a ship larger is not that great. Of course there comes a point where you're wasting money because there's no significant benefit. But I think the Type 31's estimated displacement is fine. A bit more than the Type 23, but not a lot. Still a general-purpose frigate. And obviously less than the Type 26 (which is still called a frigate).
     
  2. Brumby
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    The design philosophy behind the Type 26 and similarly I suspect with the Type 31e is a higher allowance provision for future growth and is reflected in the higher displacement.A RAND study concluded that for military ships the cost driver is primarily embedded military systems and not steel Building to a higher displacement would only be marginally more expensive. That said, the Type 31e at approximately US$310 million (depending on exchange rate) would be challenging to achieve at this price point based on western standards. It depends on what would constitute its baseline capabilities as separate from government equipment provision. The other main consideration is whether it is built to commercial standard or military specs and if so at what grade. The US LCS was built to 1 plus to keep cost down and was criticized for its survivability. .
     
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  3. Jura
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    Jura General

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    well individuals who went for me in this thread might've started at the Type 26 wiki:

    £8bn UK programme cost (2016 est.)[1] (eight units)

    to be able to appreciate Thursday at 7:37 PM
    Thursday at 10:08 PM
    Yesterday at 7:29 PM
    EDIT in fact those individuals expressed an amazing enthusiasm about this like quarter-price model
     
    #3173 Jura, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  4. Brumby
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    Military ships are specs based on requirements. In the case of the Type 31e, according to MOD they "shall operate globally with sustained forward presence” and that it must have “the speed for interdiction of commercial vessels and maintaining station with adversary warships in UK waters". The Type 31e has a planned endurance of 9000 nm and that defines certain engine performance and fuel storage capacity. In contrast the Gowind has a stated range of 3700 nm which basically means it is a coastal vessel with limited on station capacity. Comparing vessels solely based solely on tonnage is rather meaningless without reference to its intended performance requirements..

    Details matter. For example the Tico and Burke have almost identical tonnage displacement but their on station capability is very different. Below is an extract comparing their respective performance under certain sailing conditions :

     
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  5. Mr T
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    Mr T Senior Member

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    https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/more-details-of-the-royal-navys-type-31-frigate-emerge/

    ....

    Assessing this frigate design overall, it seems to be well-armed for its intended role in low-medium intensity conflict. For maritime security operations, it is especially well equipped while being capable of stepping up to defend itself and other vessels from air and missile attack. The 57mm and 40mm guns do have something of an overlapping capability but a heavier main gun would probably have been unaffordable. This ship will be able to throw up a wall of lethal shrapnel around itself quicker than you can say “Iranian gunboat”.

    Type 31 could also make credible second-tier escorts for the carrier strike group. Anti-submarine capability is pretty limited, probably on a par with a Type 45 destroyer, although this could perhaps be partially mitigated in future with off-board unmanned ASW systems carried in the boat bays. A big advantage of Arrowhead is the generous margin of space and weight to add additional weapons and sensors including interim or future anti-ship/land-attack missiles.

    13 Type 26 frigates might be preferable but are not affordable. The Type 31 should deliver 5 frigates for little more than the cost of a single Type 26 while diversifying the industrial base. There is still much more detail to emerge but it is safe to say, although Arrowhead is far from perfect, the RN can be satisfied it is getting a credible platform, allaying early the fears that Type 31 would deliver a warmed-over corvette.

    ....
     
  6. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    Wonder why type 26 is still called a frigate.
    With those 24 mk41 + 48 aster, it actually has more armament than type 45 and weighs just as much.
     
  7. Jura
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    Jura General

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    what "48 aster" are you talking about in "type 26" context?? please consult wikipedia before opining
     
  8. Jura
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    Jura General

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    since 08:03 "As you know, capabilities are relative term."

    I don't know that, Captain Prest, in fact I don't envy your job of defending 6k tons hull with just 24 Sea Ceptors worth mentioning in terms of armament of 6k tons hull
     
  9. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    By aster, i meant the anti air capable vls.
    I formed this opinion from UK MoD reply to letter about T26 GCS.
    I don't know if its gratifying for you to talk down to others, but its quite a bit easier to correct somebody without deprecating their comment. With all due respect, I kindly urge you not to do that or to simply not quote me at all.
     
  10. XavNN
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    XavNN New Member
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    DSEI 2019: SEA Unveils Trainable Decoy Launcher System
    [​IMG]
    https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...-sea-unveils-trainable-decoy-launcher-system/
    note also the interesting Fixed, pneumatic launcher that can deploy Sonobuoys and torpedo decoys...

    ---

    DSEI 2019: Steller Systems & Thales Unveil TX Ship Concept
    [​IMG]
    https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...teller-systems-thales-unveil-tx-ship-concept/

    --

    DSEI 2019: Roketsan’s ATMACA to be test-fired at sea in November
    [​IMG]
    https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...ns-atmaca-to-be-test-fire-at-sea-in-november/

    --

    DSEI 2019: SubSea Craft Lifts Veil on VICTA-class Diver Delivery Unit
    [​IMG]
    --

    DSEI 2019: BMT Unveils ELLIDA Amphibious / Tanker / Multi-Role Auxiliary Vessel
    [​IMG]
    https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...mphibious-tanker-multi-role-auxiliary-vessel/
    https://www.navalnews.com/event-new...ifts-veil-on-victa-class-diver-delivery-unit/

    --
     
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