UK Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Just driving over the Queensferry crossing got my wife to take these snaps

Sorry for the road cone :)

Kind of hard to get a clear shot with the bridge wind breaks in the way

And it was 27C in Scotland today

That is considered a heat wave


iUrYXfr.jpg

FpfSeRA.jpg
 
right after I began to read
How many sixth-gen fighter projects is too many? Britain’s defense secretary weighs in.
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"Europe can afford to develop two different
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concurrently, ..."

my blood pressure got elevated, so I quit

the word is shenanigans, it's s-h-e-n-a-n-i-g-a-n-s

 

Pmichael

Junior Member
Right now there is only one 6th gen aircraft program and that is the France-German (now with Spain) FCAS. Tempest is nothing more than an industry pitch at this point.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Right now there is only one 6th gen aircraft program and that is the France-German (now with Spain) FCAS. Tempest is nothing more than an industry pitch at this point.
The French German is only a model the Tempest had one of those a few years back.

Tempest has BAE, Leonardo, Rolls Royce and MBDA. That’s the full package. Avionics, sensors, engines and weapons.

The French German program has Dassault and Airbus. So basically it’s Germany paying the bills well the French build the fighter they have to get a Radar and engines that’s French owned Thales and Safran.

Development wise both are still industry pitches.
 
The French German is only a model the Tempest had one of those a few years back.

Tempest has BAE, Leonardo, Rolls Royce and MBDA. That’s the full package. Avionics, sensors, engines and weapons.

The French German program has Dassault and Airbus. So basically it’s Germany paying the bills well the French build the fighter they have to get a Radar and engines that’s French owned Thales and Safran.

Development wise both are still industry pitches.
I recall some PR Clowns were even talking UK-Japan 6Gen LOL it's related to
Jul 17, 2018
future huh "The immediate problem, of course, is whether the United Kingdom will be able to position itself as a viable partner, let alone leader in such a program given its present political and economic turmoil."
The U.K.'s New 'Tempest' Stealth Fighter Project Already Faces Serious Challenges

July 16, 2018
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Brumby

Major
Swedish Cooperation Turns Tempest Into International Venture
Despite the hopes of industry in mainland Europe, the continent looks set to have two competing sixth-generation combat aircraft on the drawing boards during the 2020s and 2030s.

With the July 19 announcement of Sweden as the first of several “like-minded partners” for Britain’s Tempest, the UK system has become an international venture and a direct competitor to the Franco-German-Spanish Future Combat Air System (FCAS).

“We believe that Europe can afford two separate combat air programs,” former British Defense Secretary Penny Mordaunt said in a parliamentary statement on July 22, adding that the FCAS project simply “does not meet the objectives laid out in our [combat air] strategy.”

The memorandum of understanding (MOU) between the UK and Sweden paves the way for joint studies that will firm up mutual requirements and establish an outline plan for the industrial base for a potential future acquisition program. A report on the joint studies’ results is due next fall.

Swedish MOU explores joint requirements and industrial base

One or two concepts needed in 2020 for procurement process

UK is investing in
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-based flying testbed

Sweden’s biggest aerospace and defense company,
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, will be a key player after a year of “deepening dialog,” the term
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has used to describe the initial feasibility studies undertaken over the last year by the UK and Sweden.

However, Saab will not join Britain’s Team Tempest—a consortium of industrial and government entities—but will instead work directly with the different team members including BAE Systems, Leonardo, missile manufacturer MBDA and aero-engine company
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.

The timing of the report may be critical. The pace of the Tempest, its associated Future Combat Air System Technology Initiative (FCAS TI) and the UK’s own acquisition initiative to bring a
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replacement to the front line by 2035 demand at least one or two well-developed concepts that will be ready to enter the torturous government formal procurement process by the end of 2020.
Source :AWST July 26, 2019
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Swedish Cooperation Turns Tempest Into International Venture

Source :AWST July 26, 2019
And that means SAAB so Airframes, BAE Air frame sensors and systems, Leonardo a avionics and Radar, Rolls Royce Engines, MBDA weapons. That’s a pretty impressive lineup of European defense.
 

Pmichael

Junior Member
The French German is only a model the Tempest had one of those a few years back.

Tempest has BAE, Leonardo, Rolls Royce and MBDA. That’s the full package. Avionics, sensors, engines and weapons.

The French German program has Dassault and Airbus. So basically it’s Germany paying the bills well the French build the fighter they have to get a Radar and engines that’s French owned Thales and Safran.

Development wise both are still industry pitches.

That BAE Tempest model is the industry pitch. There is no actual developement running - they haven't even finished non technical and technical requirement studies with potential partner nations. France and Germany actually have finished the non-technical studies and just greenlighted the start of the technical requirement study for FCAS. I'm not going further into FCAS because that's off-topic.

And Sweden hasn't actually joined Tempest at all. Even if UK started Tempest right now they would be years behind FCAS and a decade behind America.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The original requirement was written for FCAS as a RAF program the FOAS, this became the DPOC which was cancelled then reenvision as FCAS which is where France joined.
The Anglo Franco teaming then as often happens in these programs broke up. As France had different dreams. They formed a Franco German Spanish partnership well Britain formed its own Anglo Italian.

This is basically how Typhoon and Rafale came to be when a Joint European fighter program was launched between the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain. France however had differing ideas so they took what was already worked out and started a second fighter program the Rafale. Well the rest of the partnership created the Typhoon.
In this case it seems that France wanted to turn it into a Carrier fighter and centralize it to the EU. Where the UK post Brexit vote is looking to to join in such a centralized program and wants the Air Force Fighter they were pitching.

You say it would be a decade behind well three things on that,
  1. All Three of the Tempest partners have very modern fighters in fact with the exception of Sweden both have Fifth gens in early Service the F35. Even Spain is buying F35 meaning that the need to buy a VLO is less critical.By contrast Germany and France do not pushing them to catch up harder.
  2. Plans for both fighter target post 2035 for IOC with NGF as 2040 well Tempest is aiming for 2035 as such they are both behind the US program. But not by much.
  3. SAAB as yet may not have started but BAE, Leonardo and Rolls Royce can leverage work they are already doing as part of F35 and other programs even SAAB has other programs that they can use for work start. where as Dassault only has Rafale and nEUROn to build off. Airbus is taking a junior step here and never worked on a fighter. Neither maker has engines or Radar and sensors where as the Tempest teaming has some of the top names in Engines Radars and sensors. The French will have to pull in More partnerships. The easy bets being Safran and Thales both of whom make systems for the Rafale. However what that leaves for Germany may cause issues.
And the latter is an issue. France is well know for being happy to sell its wears. Germany has become very controlling of sales of its defense systems. It’s basically run most of its defense industry out of business.
France will want to sell its new fighter jets to anyone who has the €€€. Germany will resist. When that happens where does Eurofighter 2.0 go?? The heart of the Franco Germanic partnership is the same as can be seen with the new Franco-German Main Ground Combat System (MGCS),the proposed European aircraft carrier to centralize power in Europe around the EU political, Financial and Military. That layer part is meant to take 4 forms the Fighter, the Tank the Carrier and those that would operate such the EU army.
< Humorously this is pretty much laid out in destopian video games for over a decade. >
This is more a partnership to power than practice.
 
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