Typhoon Haiyan Disaster in the Philippines

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
"Foreseeable future"...they've been saying the same darn thing for the last 10 years but the truth is that they either have to downgrade on platforms' performances to reach production deadline, or keep relying on Russian imports.

I don't think we've heard any claims at all about high performance helicopter turboshafts in the "last ten years". In fact the Chinese helicopter industry as a whole was mostly incompetent for the first half of the 2000s until Z-10s and other helicopters entered mass production a few years ago.

We heard claims about WS-10A for a few years, and around 2010 they entered mass production and general service on all land based flankers.
We heard claims about QC-280 in about the same timespan, and now 052Cs and 052Ds equipped with it are also in mass production.


I see no reason why you should think they can't do similar with turboshafts. WZ-9 is already in service and once an engine is in mass production and your production line is familiar with it you can upgrade it easier. WZ-16 is a joint venture with the French, and they know a thing or two about delivering turboshafts on deadlines.

If they can to produce enough WZ-16s or WZ-9As to equip 24 new helicopters a year I'd consider that satisfactory. They're already doing that with Z-10s, Z-19s, Z-9s.


Anyway, this is OT. If a mod wants, they can move the last few posts to the engines thread.
 

joshuatree

Captain
Because it takes no imagination that the Philippines will reject it flat out. Such heavy muscle display is and always will be monopolized by the US. Besides, apart from flying in heavy equipment on C-130 onto an airfield that's VLS only, the only other viable measure is helicopter lift those things, yet the entirety of PLA have no such heavy lifting helicopters.

Though you might say can use US assets for such, but since this isn't UN sanctioned operation, Chinese won't find it possible to work under US command, nor the US want to give China chance to get some positive PR score.

Ahh but if the Philippines or any other recipient rejects the offer, how does that make China look bad?

You don't always need to pick sites only reachable by airlift. What about LCAC and LSTs? Why is there a need to match the US pound for pound? Just do your own thing and develop your own soft power. Best case scenario, you develop substantial relations and influence. Worst case scenario, you gave your forces real world experience to improve themselves.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I thought I would post this here. It was posted by Icloo in the PLAN Deployments thread.

IMHO, this is a very interesting and important development as regard the PRC response to the typhoon in the Philippines. Notice the highlighted portion at the end:

This was reported in Xinhua News. It is in Chinese, 998 was only mentioned briefly at the last sentence which I think due to the sensitive nature of having a PLAN LPD in Philippines water rendered them to playdown news regarding 998 depoyment.

The link is
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环球时报综合报道】“刚抵达菲律宾便立即投入到伤员救治工作中”,正因为这种救死扶伤的精神令菲律宾媒体在25日的报道中对中国“和平方舟”号医院船大加赞扬,也令菲律宾民众对“和平方舟”号心怀感激之情。当地时间25日下午,菲律宾总统府发言人表示,“我们非常感谢中国在超级台风过后给予菲律宾的援助”。

  据悉,菲律宾当地时间25日凌晨,“和平方舟”号成功实施1例骨折切开复位内固定术和1例急性阑尾切除术。这是“和平方舟”号医院船抵达菲律宾后进行的首批手术。中国驻菲律宾大使馆新闻发言人张华25日告诉《环球时报》,成功为受灾患者进行手术后,“和平方舟”号赢得当地民众的好感,当地媒体争相对“和平方舟”号进行报道。

  正是因为中国的救灾努力,据ABS-CBN新闻网25日报道,菲律宾总统府发言人陈显达当天下午表示,“中国已经扩大和增加对我们的援助,我们对此非常感谢。”ABS-CBN新闻网称,似乎两国间的领土争端已经被放置一旁,中国“和平方舟”号受到菲武装部队军官和当地政府官员的欢迎。

  25日上午,《环球时报》记者看到,一艘菲律宾军方快艇停靠在台风重灾区莱特省码头。一批身穿迷彩服的中国军人陆续上岸,并把大批救灾物资和医疗器械搬上已经在岸边等待的菲方军车上。“和平方舟”号医院船在陆地设立前置医院的工作正式展开。

  此次海上任务的副指挥员、海军卫生部部长管柏林大校告诉《环球时报》记者,由于当地没有足够大的港口停靠,所以“和平方舟”号只能在距离海岸约10海里的锚地停泊。“由于无法靠岸,医院船的主平台作用受到制约。为了更快地为菲律宾灾民服务,我们考虑在陆上设立前置野战医院。”

  经过半个多小时的车程,车队抵达距离塔克洛班约15公里的另一个重灾区帕洛镇。这也是自遭受台风袭击后到达当地的首批外国医疗救援人员。中方医务人员将野战医院地址选在当地一家公立医院。这家医院目前处于瘫痪状态,车队抵达时几名志愿者正帮着清理垃圾。法国军方人员已经为医院重新接通了自来水并正在整修残破的屋顶。

  中国驻菲律宾大使馆武官王劲波告诉《环球时报》,菲律宾军方对中国医院船非常重视,在水陆交通和医院选址等方面给予积极配合。记者注意到,每辆汽车上都有几名全副武装的菲军士兵,王劲波说,为了确保中方医务人员和物资的安全,菲军方专门派遣海军陆战队人员进行护卫。

  中国军方医务人员的到来令当地人感激不已。当地医院负责人激动地对《环球时报》记者说:“你们的到来是为了救治穷苦的菲律宾百姓,谢谢中国人!”

  张华告诉《环球时报》记者,截至25日当天,“和平方舟”已经收治十几例病人,老百姓非常感激,还有很多人自发为中国医疗船当义工,志愿者中有华人,也有菲律宾人。目前,“和平方舟”的工作人员正搭建的野战医院将作为伤员的运转中心,由于“和平方舟”吨位太大,不能深入灾区,所以这个运转中心的建设至关重要。张华估计野战医院两天就会建成。

  《环球时报》记者从相关人士处获知,中国海军“昆仑山”号登陆舰已经到达菲律宾,搭载了一批救灾物资,并携带舰载救护直升机配合“和平方舟”的工作。此外,中国外交部发言人秦刚25日表示,中国红十字会日前决定再次向菲律宾红十字会转交价值540万元人民币的救援物资,包括2000顶帐篷和医药等。【环球时报赴菲律宾特派记者 李锋 环球时报记者 邱永峥 马晴燕 刘德】

PLAN Landing ship Kunlunshan has arrived at Philippines with relief materials. It also brough along helicopters to coordinate with the Hospital ship ArK Peace. China Red Cross will donate another 5.4 million RMB worth of material including 2000 tents and medical supplies.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Debora Brautigam has been writing on China in Africa for several decades, and she outlined some perspectives on the paltry aid China gave the Philippines. It seems China give generously in humanitarian aid all over the world, but not to countries that upsets her.

By the way, Dr. Brautigam's book The Dragon's Gift on China's social, economic, and FDI history and developments in Africa is a great read. Good for Christmas/Chinese New Year stocking stuffer.

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A week after Typhoon Haiyan hit the Philippines, the Chinese have been bit players in the response, with an initial pledge of 10 million yuan ($1.6 million) in-kind aid, and $200,000 in cash. Is this all we can expect? Probably not. Yet while all the news stories on the meager Chinese donations usually note that China has "the world's second largest economy," they usually fail to put China's generosity (or lack) into context. Context helps to understand Chinese actions in two ways.

First, any donation should properly be judged against not against a country's absolute wealth but in relation to its wealth and population: i.e. wealth on a per capita basis. Seen from this perspective, China falls to #92 in the list of prosperity (using the World Bank's measure of 2012 GDP/pc, or per capita, PPP). With a per capita GDP of $9,233, the Chinese are far less wealthy than the countries that have contributed the most to the relief effort, so far: the UK ($32 million, $36,950 GDP/pc), Australia ($30 million; $44,598 GDP/pc), and the US ($20 million; $49,965 GDP/pc). (Many of these countries have also pledged in-kind assistance). Still, the response could have been more generous. Indeed, as I outline below, a historical perspective shows just how paltry the Chinese response has been so far, and how much it likely has to do with Chinese bitterness about the Philippine's recent actions in the South China Seas.

Second, China has been more generous in other humanitarian disasters. China is not a new player at humanitarian aid. Shipments of food in times of famine are a familiar element in Chinese assistance. The Chinese Red Cross has been providing disaster aid since at least 1981. In 1985, the Chinese Red Cross raised $5 million for famine relief in Africa. After the Haiti earthquake, the Chinese pledged over $7 million in cash assistance.

History helps put China's paltry assistance to the Philippines into perspective. Below is a section from my book on China's aid program, The Dragon's Gift, pp. 121-122.

... [Over the past decades,] China has given bilateral earthquake relief to Algeria and Iran, mud avalanche relief to the Philippines, tents, mosquito nets, and blankets to Iraq and Somalia, and even donated $5 million after the Katrina hurricane disaster in the United States...

... Today, China’s humanitarian aid has greatly increased, consistent with Beijing’s relatively new desire to project itself as a “responsible major power.” It is also increasingly being channeled multilaterally, as in Zimbabwe’s 2009 drought, when the Chinese made a $5 million cash donation to support WFP [World Food Program] operations.

This new multilateralism began during the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. At first, China reacted unilaterally, as its foreign emergency response mechanism swung into motion. Wang Hanjiang, then head of the Department of Foreign Aid, met quickly with his counterpart in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to map out the first steps in China’s response. After getting approval from the State Council, they called in the Foreign Affairs Office of the Chinese Ministry of National Defense, and the Ministry of Civil Affairs, which carried out the tasks.

The Chinese were proud that a planeload of supplies from China was the first foreign aid to arrive in Sri Lanka, flown directly from a Beijing factory only two days after the disaster. Chinese medical teams and engineers were posted to a number of countries struck by the tidal wave. But then China publicly pledged more than $60 million, and channeled almost a third of this through the UN – a first. (Some in the region speculated that China’s historic response was partly done to outgun Taiwan, which had pledged $50 million for the recovery effort.) Private citizens in China donated more than $61 million through the Chinese Red Cross and the China Charity Federation. With the disaster of the Pakistan earthquake following the tsunami, China’s official bilateral humanitarian aid for 2005 ultimately totaled nearly $128 million, with NGOs and Chinese companies raising an almost equal amount.

I anticipate that Chinese aid to the Philippines will rise, but Beijing will not be able to easily play down the conclusion that their response to this disaster was stingy, and petty.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Debora Brautigam has been writing on China in Africa for several decades, and she outlined some perspectives on the paltry aid China gave the Philippines. It seems China give generously in humanitarian aid all over the world, but not to countries that upsets her.

By the way, Dr. Brautigam's book The Dragon's Gift on China's social, economic, and FDI history and developments in Africa is a great read. Good for Christmas/Chinese New Year stocking stuffer.

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China Africa Real Story said:
I anticipate that Chinese aid to the Philippines will rise, but Beijing will not be able to easily play down the conclusion that their response to this disaster was stingy, and petty
This article seemed to take an intial slant to its story when the intial offers came in, and then reflected that in the article.

Since that time, the PRC has steadily increased its aid, material support, and the commitment of its forces. Perhaps the PRC realized its error.

Their very modern and large Hospital Ship has been sent and is serving.

They have also sent at least one of their large LPDs.

It is likely that whatever sting the initial offerings recieved, will fade rapidly with this larger effort.

People who are being helped, remember the people who helped them, and it impacts their thinking about those people. The larger number you help, the larger that impact.

At this point China is certianly providing significantly more help to the Philippines than initially anticpated.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Eairler in this thread I posted a story about USNS Mercy deploying to provide medical help in the Republic of the Philippines.

I discovered yesterday that the deployment of Mercy was cancelled.

Wow.. they were loaded up and ready to deploy.

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Release Date: 11/26/2013 10:35:00 AM
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From U.S. Pacific Fleet Public Affairs

PEARL HARBOR (NNS) -- Adm. Harry B. Harris Jr., commander of U.S. Pacific Fleet, directed that the hospital ship USNS Mercy (T-AH 19) be returned to a reduced operating status Nov. 25.

Following a devastating typhoon in the Philippines, Mercy was activated Nov. 13 for possible deployment to support disaster relief efforts as part of Operation Damayan.

"Shifting Mercy from her normal reduced operating status to fully ready to deploy in a matter of days is a testament to the responsiveness and expertise of the Military Sealift Command, our Navy medical corps, and the shipyard civilian workforce in San Diego," said Pacific Fleet spokesman Cmdr. Steve Curry.

Mercy was prepared for deployment as a prudent measure in the event that the scope and scale of the relief efforts in the Philippines necessitated the long-term, robust capabilities the hospital ship provides.

"Our friends needed our help, so we leaned forward to get Mercy ready to deploy early in the crisis, before the medical situation was completely known, due the time required to prepare the ship for sea, and transit to the Philippines," said Curry. "The medical situation in the Philippines has dramatically improved over the last two weeks, with numerous U.S. and international care providers currently operating in impacted areas, so the ship will not deploy."

Within six days of Typhoon Haiyan hitting the region, the U.S. Pacific Fleet had 10 ships and numerous aircraft on station delivering vital assistance to the government and people of the Philippines. In addition to two P-3 maritime aircraft from VP-26, USS George Washington (CVN 73), USS Antietam (CG 54), USNS Bowditch (T-AGS 62), USNS Charles Drew (T-AKE 10), USS Cowpens (CG 63), USS Emory S. Land (AS 39), USS Lassen (DDG 82), USS Mustin (DDG 89), USNS Richard E. Byrd (T-AKE 4), and USNS Yukon (T-AO 202) deployed with 21 helicopters and provided support during the initial stages of the disaster relief effort.

On Nov. 20, USS Ashland (LSD 48) and USS Germantown (LSD 42) arrived at the Philippines with embarked Marines as part of the Navy-Marine Corps team effort to provide humanitarian assistance. Subsequently, USS Freedom (LCS 1) also deployed in support of Operation Damayan.

Operation Damayan is part of the broader U.S. Government interagency effort led by the Department of State to support the Government of the Philippines's request for humanitarian assistance.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Eairler in this thread I posted a story about USNS Mercy deploying to provide medical help in the Republic of the Philippines.

I discovered yesterday that the deployment of Mercy was cancelled.

Wow.. they were loaded up and ready to deploy.

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I guess things are getting better in the Philippines that the USNS Mercy service was no longer needed.
 
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