Typhoon Haiyan Disaster in the Philippines

Bltizo said:

Oh well, until the next natural disaster I suppose (I kid)

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They will, because by the location where the Philippines locates, it's sure as death and tax to get hit by typhoons or earthquakes or volcano eruptions, just typhoons on a "good year" and add a dash of the other 2 on a "bad year". Now, the bigger question is: would the meteorologist warning of typhoons at the magnitude of Haiyan really going to be the new norm in the years to come? If so, the Philippines is set to get a few more blows this heavy when the next year's typhoon season hits.

Jeff Head said:

Those are awesome pictures. It's efforts like this that will do more to win the hearts and minds of neighbors over to a more friendly PRC.

The more she can do this...the better. IMHO, the PLAN should build a couple of more such vessels, and then have one for each fleet...and then use them more often like this.

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Hey Jeff, from that pic, why is that emergency escape pod (at that's what it looks like to me) out and away from the Peace Ark?

Equation said:

Hey Jeff, from that pic, why is that emergency escape pod (at that's what it looks like to me) out and away from the Peace Ark?

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I'd say no. That's just a small boat used by the crew to go back and forth to shore when anchored out.

bd popeye said:

I'd say no. That's just a small boat used by the crew to go back and forth to shore when anchored out.

[FONT=&amp]Operation Damayan [/FONT]

An MV-22B Osprey assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 265, lands on the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force helicopter destroyer, JDS Ise (DDH-182), off the coast of the Philippines, Nov. 27, 2013, during Operation Damayan.

An MV-22B Osprey assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 265, in support of Joint Task Force 505 (JTF-505), lands on the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, helicopter destroyer, JDS Ise (DDH-182), off the coast of the Philippines, Nov. 27, 2013, during Operation Damayan.

An MV-22B Osprey assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 265, in support of Joint Task Force 505 (JTF-505), lands on the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, helicopter destroyer, JDS Ise (DDH-182) , off the coast of the Philippines, Nov. 27, 2013, during Operation Damayan.

The Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force helicopter destroyer, JDS Ise (DDH-182), sails of the coast of the Philippines, Nov. 27, 2013, while conducting humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations, during Operation Damayan.


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Great pics! She's a fine ship.

bd popeye said:

I'd say no. That's just a small boat used by the crew to go back and forth to shore when anchored out.

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I agree.

Although, as equation asked, it looks like the type of vessel used on large tankers for emergency evacuations, those vessels have quite a bit of capability and could easily have versions that are used as ship's launches. I would say that is what is occurring here.

bd popeye said:

Operation Damayan

An MV-22B Osprey assigned to Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 265, lands on the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force helicopter destroyer, JDS Ise (DDH-182), off the coast of the Philippines, Nov. 27, 2013, during Operation Damayan.

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The Ise, DDH-182, is the second of the

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Not to be confused with the larger

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, the first of which was launched earlier this year, and the second of those is building.



Nice to see the Opreys cross decking to the Hyuga Class. we saw that on the Hyuga itself earlier this year.

I expect the same will occur with the larger vessels once they are in service.

A couple shots of the peace ark's Z-8 loading on some passengers.





Vertical lift is a major weakness in the PLA's overall order of battle.

They've more or less mastered the art of making attack helicopters, and are churning out about 24 Z-10s and 24 Z-19s a year, and can build a similar number of Z-9s too, and a smaller number of Z-8s.

However Z-9s are too small for any meaningful lift, and Z-8s are an old design, and even a modernized design would only reach AW101 standards at best.

The PLA needs both a blackhawk/seakhawk equivalent, as well as a Chinook/Ch-53 equivalent. Helicopters are perhaps the most dual use military asset possible and are very versatile and indispensable in humanitarian operations.
Without a large number of reliable medium helicopters and a decent number of heavy lift helicopters, both the PLA's air assault -- and as past disaster assistance has shown -- humanitarian response capability will be limited.

I'm sure the PLA are eagerly awaiting the Z-15 or Z-20 to enter their ranks, as well as the modernized Z-8 and Advanced Heavy Lift helicopter they're developing with Russia. It'll be a few years yet, but they're coming.

If they can get the quad rotor 20 payload ton Blue Whale concept off the ground and the new generation of co-axial-pusher-prop concept developed as well, it would finally provide the PLA a modern and competitive vertical lift capability and be able to dispense aid more effectively.

Bltizo said:

Vertical lift is a major weakness in the PLA's overall order of battle.

They've more or less mastered the art of making attack helicopters, and are churning out about 24 Z-10s and 24 Z-19s a year, and can build a similar number of Z-9s too, and a smaller number of Z-8s.

However Z-9s are too small for any meaningful lift, and Z-8s are an old design, and even a modernized design would only reach AW101 standards at best.

The PLA needs both a blackhawk/seakhawk equivalent, as well as a Chinook/Ch-53 equivalent. Helicopters are perhaps the most dual use military asset possible and are very versatile and indispensable in humanitarian operations.
Without a large number of reliable medium helicopters and a decent number of heavy lift helicopters, both the PLA's air assault -- and as past disaster assistance has shown -- humanitarian response capability will be limited.

I'm sure the PLA are eagerly awaiting the Z-15 or Z-20 to enter their ranks, as well as the modernized Z-8 and Advanced Heavy Lift helicopter they're developing with Russia. It'll be a few years yet, but they're coming.

If they can get the quad rotor 20 payload ton Blue Whale concept off the ground and the new generation of co-axial-pusher-prop concept developed as well, it would finally provide the PLA a modern and competitive vertical lift capability and be able to dispense aid more effectively.

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It's always the shortcomings in the engine department, an area in the enitre Chinese aviation industry that made the least progress, in turn stalled everything else.

Only when there're competent platforms that the PLA/PLAN/PLAAF finds the merit to expand its vertical aviation assets, but the hope for that day to come still remains elusive.

MwRYum said:

It's always the shortcomings in the engine department, an area in the enitre Chinese aviation industry that made the least progress, in turn stalled everything else.

Only when there're competent platforms that the PLA/PLAN/PLAAF finds the merit to expand its vertical aviation assets, but the hope for that day to come still remains elusive.

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Indeed.

However the big shrimps have been talking about a surge in the helicopter industry that we can expect in forthcoming years as a result of previous years investment, and CDF just recently posted major developments in the WZ-16 engine's development (I believe it was bench tested and is meant to receive CAAC certification by next year? Big news). And Z-10 and Z-19, Z-9 and Z-8 are in full production, showing at least the engines for those aircraft can be mass produced even if they're not completely optimal

thankfully China has retained domestic helicopter design and production expertise. Once they acquire the ability to manufacture high performance turboshafts we should see a surge of new helicopter production too.

We can see this in the aerospace domain. Once WS-10A production was finalized, SAC flanker production was on full throttle.
Similarly, once China had the ability to produce diesels their 054A production rate was very much competitive. Once they mastered QC-280, we now see the surge in 052Cs and 052Ds.
It's only a matter of time before we see that with helicopters. We might not immeidately see exciting new projects like V-22 and SB>1, but from AVIC concepts and public statements, it's clear they are setting themselves up to have the exotic aircraft designs ready for the engines once it arrives in the forseeable future.

Bltizo said:

Without a large number of reliable medium helicopters and a decent number of heavy lift helicopters, both the PLA's air assault -- and as past disaster assistance has shown -- humanitarian response capability will be limited.

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I concur lift capability needs improvement but I also attribute limited humanitarian response capability to not thinking outside the box. China could have sent in engineering brigades with heavy earth moving equipment to restore infrastructure aside from tending to patients. That is just as much a humanitarian response and also gives the army field experience outside of training runs.

Bltizo said:

Indeed.

However the big shrimps have been talking about a surge in the helicopter industry that we can expect in forthcoming years as a result of previous years investment, and CDF just recently posted major developments in the WZ-16 engine's development (I believe it was bench tested and is meant to receive CAAC certification by next year? Big news). And Z-10 and Z-19, Z-9 and Z-8 are in full production, showing at least the engines for those aircraft can be mass produced even if they're not completely optimal

thankfully China has retained domestic helicopter design and production expertise. Once they acquire the ability to manufacture high performance turboshafts we should see a surge of new helicopter production too.

We can see this in the aerospace domain. Once WS-10A production was finalized, SAC flanker production was on full throttle.
Similarly, once China had the ability to produce diesels their 054A production rate was very much competitive. Once they mastered QC-280, we now see the surge in 052Cs and 052Ds.
It's only a matter of time before we see that with helicopters. We might not immeidately see exciting new projects like V-22 and SB>1, but from AVIC concepts and public statements, it's clear they are setting themselves up to have the exotic aircraft designs ready for the engines once it arrives in the forseeable future.

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"Foreseeable future"...they've been saying the same darn thing for the last 10 years but the truth is that they either have to downgrade on platforms' performances to reach production deadline, or keep relying on Russian imports.

joshuatree said:

I concur lift capability needs improvement but I also attribute limited humanitarian response capability to not thinking outside the box. China could have sent in engineering brigades with heavy earth moving equipment to restore infrastructure aside from tending to patients. That is just as much a humanitarian response and also gives the army field experience outside of training runs.

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Because it takes no imagination that the Philippines will reject it flat out. Such heavy muscle display is and always will be monopolized by the US. Besides, apart from flying in heavy equipment on C-130 onto an airfield that's VLS only, the only other viable measure is helicopter lift those things, yet the entirety of PLA have no such heavy lifting helicopters.

Though you might say can use US assets for such, but since this isn't UN sanctioned operation, Chinese won't find it possible to work under US command, nor the US want to give China chance to get some positive PR score.