Trade War with China

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Gatekeeper

Brigadier
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I guess POTUS always gets away with his crazy maths.

500B - 180B = 500B (USD).

And how did buying something and paying the money on your own free will become equated to "outright losing money"?

The sad thing is the majority of the masses probably believe him.

Its incredible maths, I guess $500B was handed over willingly for nothing at all!

They continue to spin this as China ripping off US. As if US didn't get anything out of this trade.

For one thing, if nothing else, as well as the utilities the average US consumer enjoyed. Most economists agrees that the US and the west have enjoyed LOW inflation in the past 30 years contributing to additional growth rates in the west.

But, now is beware of the yellow peril all over again.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
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Trump is collecting tariffs China is paying and he'll use it buying agricultural products from US farmers to give to poor countries to feed their people... LOL!!!!!

"This is not the Obama Administration, or the Administration of Sleepy Joe, who let China get away with 'murder!'," he posted, using the
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he has given the
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, Joe Biden.

Not only that if he fails he can always blame it on the Obama administration for being weak on China and that no matter what dumb moves he has done he can use that excuse as his crutch.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I rather like this article. Summarized as neither the US nor China really want a deal. The US doesn't want it because tariffs are what Trump promised to try to bring manufacturing back to the US and if China actually agreed to the US terms, US investment would flood into China because of the perceived new benefits, which would be against "MAGA." China doesn't want a deal because it's trying to get rid of cheap manufacturing and climb the value chain as opposed to having large swaths of its population and resources dedicated to making low-margin cheap goods for foreign countries to enjoy.

Estimates trade war loss of 0.5% GDP growth for both countries, which is a good deal as far as I'm concerned. If the US grows at 3.2% (which, unlike China, is not stable) and China at 6.4%, then the US rate is 50% as fast. Shave 0.5% off, you get 2.7% and 5.9%, which makes the US rate 45.8% as fast. Sounds okily dokily to me. It'd be best if they found a way to ratchet it up some more and cause a 3% drop so China would still be moving along at a very admirable for any developed economy and the US growth rate would go belly-up Japanese style.

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The U.S. and China May Not Want a Deal After All

"A best-case deal would make China a more appealing destination for foreign investment by tightening up intellectual-property laws; cracking down on industrial espionage; ending forced technology transfers; reducing licensing and joint-venture requirements; and ending conditions that favor state-owned enterprises. It’s not hard to see why large U.S. multinationals might be tempted by reforms of that sort – but if you’re looking to make America great again by bringing jobs home, making China a more attractive place to do business seems a strange way to go about it."

"On top of that, the sectors most likely to be hurt by an extended trade conflict are precisely the ones that far-sighted economic planners want to leave behind to help China escape the middle-income trap. In an extended trade conflict, low-margin manufacturing of toys, furniture, clothing and final assembly of electronic goods would likely shift away from China to destinations such as Mexico and Vietnam. That’s not a bad thing for an economy whose desire to move up the value chain toward the manufacture of battery-powered vehicles, electronic components, aircraft, robots and medical technology is one justification for the trade war itself."

"The loss of integration with Chinese supply chains would mean that American manufacturing would also suffer, according to the International Monetary Fund, while both economies would end up experiencing a weakening in growth in the region of 0.5 percentage point."
 
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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Not only that if he fails he can always blame it on the Obama administration for being weak on China and that no matter what dumb moves he has done he can use that excuse as his crutch.

It's obvious Trump fears Joe Biden which is why he's going back to his campaign tactics, like attacking China, because that's what he thinks made him win.
 

SpicySichuan

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Seems like decoupling could be the likely result after all, especially when you have conservative national security hawks in charge in both Washington and Beijing.
 

localizer

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Statement By U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer on Section 301 Action

Washington, DC – U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer today released the following statement regarding additional action under Section 301 of the Trade Act of 1974:

“Earlier today, at the direction of the President, the United States increased the level of tariffs from 10 percent to 25 percent on approximately $200 billion worth of Chinese imports. The President also ordered us to begin the process of raising tariffs on essentially all remaining imports from China, which are valued at approximately $300 billion.”

The process for public notice and comment will be published shortly in the Federal Register. The details will be on the USTR website on Monday as we begin the process prior to a final decision on these tariffs.


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Treasury Secretary Mnuchin on further China trade talks: There's nothing planned as of now

  • Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Friday said that there are no further trade talks planned between the U.S. and China "as of now."
  • Mnuchin's comments came shortly after President Donald Trump wrote in a post on Twitter that talks will continue and that his relationship with Chinese President Xi Jinping remained strong, sending stocks to session highs.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
This is the chinese side explanation as to why the talk broke down
Asking a sovereign country to rewrite their law to comply with the wishes of other country is tantamount to colonialism and humiliation No one would do that As I said before least of all Xi the promulgator of "Chinese dream"
No the Chinese does not walk back on their promise because it is still in draft format
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CHINA DETAILS DIFFERENCES
Three differences remain between the two countries, according to China’s account of the latest talks.

One of those is over tariffs, Liu said, according to a transcript of the Q&A published by Phoenix, a Hong Kong-based television station that is close to Beijing. China believes that tariffs were the genesis of the trade dispute, and that if both sides wanted to reach an agreement, then all tariffs must be eliminated, Liu said.

The second is about procurement, on which an initial consensus was reached between the leaders of the two countries in Argentina late last year. The two sides now have differing views on the volumes, Liu said. The third is over how balanced the text of the draft agreement should be, he said.

“Every nation has its dignity, so the text ought to be balanced,” Liu said.

Sources told Reuters this week that China had deleted its commitments in the draft agreement that said it would change laws to resolve core complaints of the United States: theft of U.S. intellectual property and trade secrets; forced technology transfers; competition policy; access to financial services; and currency manipulation
.


Liu denied the accusations of China’s reneging on promises, saying China thought it was normal to make changes before a final deal. Both sides had differing views on how to phrase it, he said.

Liu said he hoped this issue would be resolved, so it was unnecessary to “over react” to that point.

Similar to Liu, Chinese state media said China would not give in on its core interests.

“China clearly requires that the trade procurement figures should be realistic; the text must be balanced and expressed in terms that are acceptable to the Chinese people and do not undermine the sovereignty and dignity of the country,” the ruling Communist Party’s official People’s Daily said in a commentary on Saturday.

The trade war has weighed on the Chinese economy.

When asked about domestic concerns on how the latest tariffs could further pressure the economy, Liu said he was optimistic about China’s economy in the longer term, adding that it had entered an up-cycle after bottoming out somewhat last year.

He said he believed the Chinese economy would maintain a stable and healthy trend despite some downward pressure, and that China had ample room for fiscal and monetary policy maneuvers.

On Monday, hours after Trump said he intended to raise tariffs, the Chinese central bank cut the amount of reserves that some small and medium-sized banks need to hold, freeing up more funds for lending to cash-strapped firms.
 
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