Trade War with China

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Insignius

Junior Member
Cringe.

What is the point in trying to talk sense with the US lunatics who are hellbent to destroy China? Even using American popular media, capeshit examples and quotes to make a point, thinking that this would change the mind of convinced China haters...

China should adopt a Russian policy in dealing with the US. Do not talk to them. Do not discuss anything with them. Exploit every weakness and fault, no matter how petty, to strike back. Just do anything to hurt them. And dont try to sound reasonable, civilized or logical. Call their mothers a whore and show them the finger. Win-win cannot be salvaged anymore.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Cringe.

What is the point in trying to talk sense with the US lunatics who are hellbent to destroy China? Even using American popular media, capeshit examples and quotes to make a point, thinking that this would change the mind of convinced China haters...

China should adopt a Russian policy in dealing with the US. Do not talk to them. Do not discuss anything with them. Exploit every weakness and fault, no matter how petty, to strike back. Just do anything to hurt them. And dont try to sound reasonable, civilized or logical. Call their mothers a whore and show them the finger. Win-win cannot be salvaged anymore.

China has been very well behaved compared to Russia because it still stands much to gain from adopting a cooperative attitude with the US on most fronts. But at some point, it will be enough and China should push back against all this slander we've been hearing for decades.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Cringe.

What is the point in trying to talk sense with the US lunatics who are hellbent to destroy China? Even using American popular media, capeshit examples and quotes to make a point, thinking that this would change the mind of convinced China haters...

China should adopt a Russian policy in dealing with the US. Do not talk to them. Do not discuss anything with them. Exploit every weakness and fault, no matter how petty, to strike back. Just do anything to hurt them. And dont try to sound reasonable, civilized or logical. Call their mothers a whore and show them the finger. Win-win cannot be salvaged anymore.

Yes, there are lunatics in the US who would like nothing else but to destroy China.

But then there are others who don't share those views, and those views were previously predominant.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
China has been very well behaved compared to Russia because it still stands much to gain from adopting a cooperative attitude with the US on most fronts. But at some point, it will be enough and China should push back against all this slander we've been hearing for decades.

The USA was the original architect of a liberal trade and investment order, which China has benefited immensely from.

And as China grows much larger than the USA, with its own hi-tech multi-nationals, it is in China's interest to maintain open access as much as possible, despite the USA turning away from this.

That means it will be in China's interest to cooperate with the USA for a long time yet.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
There you got it from the horse mouth. The western press and pundit are wrong if they believe china will cave in. there is no room for compromise here
China will not cave in to US demands even if it faces further tariffs on its exports, China’s Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has said, signalling Beijing’s uncompromising stance in dealing with US.
China won’t back down in trade war with US: Commerce Minister

“This unyielding nation suffered foreign bullying for many times in history, but never succumbed to it even in the most difficult conditions.

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In Beijing’s strongest response yet, key official says: ‘They don’t know the history and culture of this unyielding nation’

PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 10 October, 2018, 12:04am
UPDATED : Wednesday, 10 October, 2018, 12:04am

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9 Oct 2018
China will not cave in to US demands even if it faces further tariffs on its exports, China’s Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has said, signalling Beijing’s uncompromising stance in dealing with US.

“There is a view in the US that so long as the US keeps increasing tariffs, China will back down. They don’t know the history and culture of China,” Zhong said, in a statement published by Bloomberg News,

“This unyielding nation suffered foreign bullying for many times in history, but never succumbed to it even in the most difficult conditions.


“China doesn’t want a trade war, but would rise up to it should it break out,” Zhong said.

“The US should not underestimate China’s resolve and will.”

This is Beijing’s strongest response yet to the trade war following a release of a white paper last month detailing its stance on the trade war, in which China blamed the US for creating the tensions and painted itself as a promoter of free trade.

The strong comments from Zhong, whose ministry is in the front line of any possible talks with the US, coincide with a rapid deterioration in the ties between Beijing and Washington.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, on a brief visit to Beijing on Monday, had a testy exchange with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi.

Wang told Pompeo the US had hurt “mutual trust” and must stop “misguided actions” against China, while Pompeo said there were “fundamental disagreements” between the two powers.

Prospects for Beijing and Washington to de-escalate their trade tensions are not bright.

The two sides have locked horns in levying punitive tariffs against each other and there are gaping differences over a slew of issues from intellectual property rights to the role of state-owned enterprises.

The US initially imposed a 25 per cent tariff on US$50 billion worth of Chinese imports, and in September added a 10 per cent tariff on an additional US$200 billion of Chinese products, with the tariff rate set to rise to 25 per cent on January 1 if China does not make trade concessions.

US President Donald Trump has also threatened to extend punitive tariffs to all Chinese imports.

China retaliated with a 25 per cent tariff on US$50 billion of US imports and variable tariffs of 5 per cent to 10 per cent on a further US$60 billion of US imports.

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Washington is demanding China change its trade practices of forcing US businesses to transfer technologies and of subsidising state-owned enterprises.

Zhong reiterated Beijing’s line that China does not steal technology from US firms.

“I want to emphasise that China’s laws and regulations do not contain any requirement for technology transfer and that companies’ purchases of technologies and patents are pure market behaviour,” he said.

“China’s economic development, and science and technological progress are owed to reform and opening up and the endeavours of the Chinese people.”

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Zhong also argued that China never “took advantage of the US” even as the country ran a record trade surplus of US$31.05 billion with the US in August.

“If one side had been taken advantage of all the time, could such business relations have continued? Companies and consumers know best whether or not they have been taken advantage of,” Zhong said.

The conflict between the two countries has now gone beyond trade, with Trump’s accusations that China is attempting to interfere in the 2018 US midterm congressional elections. Vice-President Mike Pence also stepped up the attack by condemning Beijing for using “every tool at its disposal” to undermine the US political system. Pence also warned American companies, including tech giant Alphabet, which owns Google, to disengage from China.
 

Anlsvrthng

Captain
Registered Member
China will likely lose a conventional war and despite having a no first use policy for now (so no means of stopping a conventional US victory in key strategic arenas like SCS) they will definitely change their stance if a war were to start. There is no place for no first use against a superior enemy. You will end up losing every single military asset built up through the years if you don't put a stop to it. Once every last ship, sub, plane is gone, the US may choose to mount a mainland invasion with impunity. That would mean most of Chinese population lost. No first use and no threat of MAD is guaranteed loss for China. What they need is something similar to Russia, guaranteed annihilation of the entire global population if China were to lose a conventional war, thereby stopping a superior conventional military force like USA to even start a drawn out war where China ends up losing most of her military assets.

All of this does not mean China can ignore conventional build up. It aims to match US numbers, technology, and training one day and hopefully exceed it. If that day comes, US along with most nuclear nations will still be able to defend themselves from an aggressive and imperialistic China IF China were to become that, and I'm willing to bet they won't bother because China can play the trade game better and there's no point inheriting wastelands. Lessons learnt from observing American war campaigns everywhere, resulting in horrific messes for everybody.

I don't think so..
China has better chances in a long term war.
Four times higher population, say half of he efficiency of USA means twice as much carrier/destroyer/fighter jet/cruise missile than USA.

Check the Japan vs. USA story, the later won the war not because it had better army at the beginning of war, but because the USA had better army at the end of the war.At the end of the war the USA made as much aircraft carrier in each year than the full flotilla of the Japanese carriers.

And it brings up an interesting question.
IF there is a conventional war, and the chance increase of say a main nuclear power loose against a peer, the third parties around the nuclear power has they interest to help , and avoid the trigger of full blown nuclear war.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
SCS islands cannot defended if war breakout. But No way US can win in mainland. Their point defense are very sophisticated, majority of expensive tomahawks will be knocked out.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
There you got it from the horse mouth. The western press and pundit are wrong if they believe china will cave in. there is no room for compromise here
China will not cave in to US demands even if it faces further tariffs on its exports, China’s Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has said, signalling Beijing’s uncompromising stance in dealing with US.
China won’t back down in trade war with US: Commerce Minister

“This unyielding nation suffered foreign bullying for many times in history, but never succumbed to it even in the most difficult conditions.

....
9 Oct 2018
China will not cave in to US demands even if it faces further tariffs on its exports, China’s Commerce Minister Zhong Shan has said, signalling Beijing’s uncompromising stance in dealing with US.

“There is a view in the US that so long as the US keeps increasing tariffs, China will back down. They don’t know the history and culture of China,” Zhong said, in a statement published by Bloomberg News,

“This unyielding nation suffered foreign bullying for many times in history, but never succumbed to it even in the most difficult conditions.


“China doesn’t want a trade war, but would rise up to it should it break out,” Zhong said.

“The US should not underestimate China’s resolve and will.”

I expected that much. The Chinese still remember the Opium Wars. When China had much more exports than imports, the British did every trick they could to put the trade balance in their favor. First by selling opium and then by conducting military actions, and even invading parts of Chinese soil proper. Later by planting tea in India. The more that the US sticks to its hard stance without being reasonable, the more the Chinese will think the same thing is happening again. Unless USA leaders can properly frame the trade deal it ain't gonna happen. The Chinese expect to be treated equally. Unless the arguments are framed that way, it won't happen. The USA clause in the Canada/Mexico deals where any member can unilaterally veto Chinese imports is another thing which I think the Chinese will strongly oppose.
 
I knew I had seen food LOL recently; here it is:
... I think China can be self-sufficient in terms of food production if they devote the resources to do it. ...
Do you believe Chinese haven't incorporated crops like potatoes and sorghum into their cuisine? How do you think the Qing were able to experience such a massive population boom?

Regarding corn: few cultures outside North America have felt the need to adjust their palate to corn. Anyway, I doubt the food self-sufficiency issue will ever necessitate such drastic measures...
saying because of what I've read now:

"In 2017, McDonald's announced plans to increase the number of its restaurants from 2,500 to 4,500 in the Chinese mainland over the next five years, with third- and fourth-tier cities as the focus of the expansion."

Xinhua Headlines: Young adults in small cities reshaping China's consumer power
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