To address its own and country biggest weakness, Huawei must advance its chip manufacturing.

Faithlock said:

What Huawei (and every other Chinese companies) really need is having a strong government who can fight back and stop the trade war.

Click to expand...

By the way, what the government did to ZTE is disgraceful. ZTE is a great company. It is the number 4 telecommunication equipment company in the world. Great companies like Qualcomm, Cisco, and Intel tried and failed. Great companies in Japan tried and failed. Even Samsung is below it.

If ZTE is in the USA, Japan, or Korea, it would be adored and will be treated like a national champion.

No electronic company can survive (will Huawei be the only exception?) if it is against the full might of USA.

Not sure Huawei will survive but Hisilicon will!
A few years from now, maybe from Huawei ashes rise Xi-way or something of that nature.
By the way, Lenovo is a dog, only interested in using foreign parts in their system. They don't want to do any development, which they deemed too risky and not worth it.

Faithlock said:

What Huawei (and every other Chinese companies) really need is having a strong government who can fight back and stop the trade war.

Click to expand...

You can't stop the trade war with US if you have decided to fight back. Many people are quick to draw parallels to the Plaza accord that US made the japanese to sign BUT they aren't entirely wrong to assume so. The fact is that US does NOT want the opposer to fight back. It always looks to dominate.
If China fights back, the trade war will go on.
If you don't want a trade war, China must take the beating lying down.



UNACCEPTABLE.

China isn't Japan or Germany. There are two documentaries about the Japanese Banking system and post war miracles in Youtube that discusses the very unfair demands US imposed on Japan after losing out to Japan in the Automobile and electronics industry with the Plaza accord. The Japanese government and the board members of the BOJ (Bank of Japan)knew that they had to give in to US demands and finally decided to self destruct their economy ( which was a top down authoritarian controlled economy that had been playing famously unfair ). The current chinese policies that are termed unfair and all , would look like quite fair and sane when one compares it to the economies of the 1970s japan or 1980s South Korea. And US ? The most unfair-est of them all. Oligopolistic Corporations are what US contributed to the free market world, staying buoyant due to debt fueled lavish spending and wars.

Faithlock said:

By the way, what the government did to ZTE is disgraceful. ZTE is a great company. It is the number 4 telecommunication equipment company in the world. Great companies like Qualcomm, Cisco, and Intel tried and failed. Great companies in Japan tried and failed. Even Samsung is below it.

If ZTE is in the USA, Japan, or Korea, it would be adored and will be treated like a national champion.

No electronic company can survive (will Huawei be the only exception?) if it is against the full might of USA.

Click to expand...

Yes, ZTE is a fantastic company in that right but it took shortcuts relying massively on its competitor's technology without back-up and that in itself is a lost cause. Even then, the Chinese government did barter to save it so it has a second chance to learn its lesson and create its own components for the future. What more can you ask for than that?

Xsizor said:

What are the chances of ZTE, Lenovo and other tech companies pooling their resources to target and replicate/replace specific critical component suppliers of US ?
Like- Lenovo would be entrusted to work with memory chips, while a new ZTE subsidiary shoul deal with optoelectronics. I think it'd take around 5 years. Btw, help can be bought from other countries too .

Click to expand...

There are a lot of startups in China right now. They are the future. They are fast, hungry, and intelligent.

Instead of dictate which company does which parts, have a good national strategy of self sufficiency.

Let's use FPGA as an example and use the number of Flip-Flops (FFs) as a measurement tool. Right now, US can make one as large as 2M FFs, while China can only make 200k FFs. Let's assume currently, for FPGA with less than 200k FFs, 90% of market belongs to USA.

You set a requirement to every Chinese electronics companies that if they use FPGA with less than 200k FFs, they have procure at least 20% of Chinese parts in 2019, 50% in 2020 (more importantly, 0% of US sourced).

And starting in 2020, you make the assumptions that Chinese FPGA companies can start to make FPGA of 500k FFs. Then you do the same thing for that class of FPGA.

You need an industrial policy of that fidelity.

To me, China is not really fighting back currently. It may have tough words and slap some tariffs.

But it doesn't have the balls to go after US companies. Not up to this point.

It's resisitive , passive defense they are playing.

Faithlock said:

There are a lot of startups in China right now. They are the future. They are fast, hungry, and intelligent.

Instead of dictate which company does which parts, have a good national strategy of self sufficiency.

Let's use FPGA as an example and use the number of Flip-Flops (FFs) as a measurement tool. Right now, US can make one as large as 2M FFs, while China can only make 200k FFs. Let's assume currently, for FPGA with less than 200k FFs, 90% of market belongs to USA.

You set a requirement to every Chinese electronics companies that if they use FPGA with less than 200k FFs, they have procure at least 20% of Chinese parts in 2019, 50% in 2020 (more importantly, 0% of US sourced).

And starting in 2020, you make the assumptions that Chinese FPGA companies can start to make FPGA of 500k FFs. Then you do the same thing for that class of FPGA.

You need an industrial policy of that fidelity.

Click to expand...

Need to work with Huawei to design a new one to meet Huawei spec. As long as Huawei fund it, it can be done. Foundation is there.

Tsinghua uniphase group also debut their FPGA.

manqiangrexue said:

Yes, ZTE is a fantastic company in that right but it took shortcuts relying massively on its competitor's technology without back-up and that in itself is a lost cause. Even then, the Chinese government did barter to save it so it has a second chance to create its own components for the future. What more can you ask for than that?

Click to expand...

The first thing your professor tells you when you are a freshman in Engineering is never ever design more than the requirement. You can always build better product and you will always lose to your competitor.

ZTE was just doing what every companies in the world is doing. It is laser focused on building the best product against some of the smartest people in the world, against the best companies in the world.

What Huawei did is so un-natural. I sympathize with them. They being in the middle of a trade and technology war not of their own making. They are being asked of an un-achievable task by their own people, to go up against the greatest super power in the world.

That is not their job. It is their government's job.

tidalwave said:

To me, China is not really fighting back currently.

Click to expand...

"To me" is a great way to start because that's your opinion.

tidalwave said:

It may have tough words and slap some tariffs.

Click to expand...

That's Trump. Nobody's got words like Trump; he's got the best words, like "bigly," "bragadocious," "covfefe," etc...

tidalwave said:

But it doesn't have the balls to go after US companies. Not up to this point.

Click to expand...

That's assuming they calculated that that is the way to go. Saying "balls" over and over doesn't make you look manly and aggressive; it makes you look like you have a limited and immature vocabulary. And it also brings into question if you have the testicular fortitude to embark on a career of professional fighting.

tidalwave said:

It's resisitive , passive defense they are playing.

Click to expand...

Their actions are what is calculated with privileged knowledge to be the correct course. Your criticism is based off of public knowledge only and your own limited experience.

Faithlock said:

The first thing your professor tells you when you are a freshman in Engineering is never ever design more than the requirement. You can always build better product and you will always lose to your competitor.

ZTE was just doing what every companies in the world is doing. It is laser focused on building the best product against some of the smartest people in the world, against the best companies in the world.

What Huawei did is so un-natural. I sympathize with them. They being in the middle of a trade and technology war not of their own making. They are being asked of an un-achievable task by their own people, to go up against the greatest super power in the world.

That is not their job. It is their government's job.

Click to expand...

Let me put it another way, it is Huawei, and ZTE's job to go up against Qualcomm, Intel, Cisco, Nokia, Ericcson, Samsung, etc. It is Chinese government's job to go up against USA.

You would think this is common sense.

By the way, I am not blaming any body here for thinking ill of ZTE or Huawei (if they eventually fell). When the government and its main press start to shift the blame, and one listen to it over and over, even common sense can be distorted.