To address its own and country biggest weakness, Huawei must advance its chip manufacturing.

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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
As I told you- Huawei will be slowed but never beaten. I consider Huawei as a company having infinite money and resources. Huawei can utilize ZTE and Lenovo patents too - a cooperative effort i.e., Trump may win the battle (of slowing Huawei 5G down) BUT Huawei will win the war- Of being the best and the biggest telecom giant.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
As I told you- Huawei will be slowed but never beaten. I consider Huawei as a company having infinite money and resources. Huawei can utilize ZTE and Lenovo patents too - a cooperative effort i.e., Trump may win the battle (of slowing Huawei 5G down) BUT Huawei will win the war- Of being the best and the biggest telecom giant.
That's the problem , Huawei only wants to be a telecom company when it should look up to Samsung to do it all. Everything technology related.
Samsung Memory, foundry service, cellphone, 5G ,battery, display, optics, precision electromechanical parts, refrigerator, washing machine, printer,..etc. If Samsung in Huawei position, it will be harder to sanction samsung.

Basically, Huawei needs to look beyond this and take charge of China Semiconductor development effort, it should jump into optics (Carl Zeiss) and lithography equipment (ASML).

Now, that's true ambition! Remaining a telecom fabless company is not enough.
It also need to get into process and chip manufacturing.
 
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Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
Wow, I guess these other Huawei thread is closed.

Anyway, the following is a article about how experts don't believe in Huawei can escape with the ban. I have to say I tend to believe these experts. I wrote a couple of posts on the general description of telecommunication systems. I will put the link here:

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...-by-banning-huawei.t8382/page-106#post-554175
and
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...-by-banning-huawei.t8382/page-106#post-554177

Now the following is the article about the experts doubts that Huawei can largely escape this ban (if the ban is fully carried out).
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


SAN FRANCISCO/HONG KONG (Reuters) - Chip experts are calling out Huawei for its claims that it could ensure a steady supply chain without U.S. help, saying the technology the Chinese telecoms network gear maker buys from American companies would be “hard to replace”.

The Trump administration officially added Huawei to a trade blacklist on Thursday, enacting restrictions that will make it difficult for the tech giant to do business with American firms, in its latest broadside against the company that U.S. officials have labelled a threat to national security.

The head of Huawei’s HiSilicon chip division on Friday shrugged off concerns about disruptions to supply, saying it has long been preparing for this kind of “extreme scenario”.

Huawei will aim to be technologically “self-reliant” going forward, He Tingbo said in a letter to staff.

But that is easier said than done, industry experts say.

“I would be surprised if HiSilicon can make it without any U.S. suppliers,” said Linda Sui, a Strategy Analytics analyst.

A China-based source at a U.S. tech company previously told Reuters that none of Huawei’s U.S. suppliers “can be replaced by Chinese ones, not within a few years, at least”.

As an example of Huawei’s reliance on U.S. firms, an expert pointed to the high probability that the tech giant uses chip design software from market leaders Cadence Design Systems Inc and Synopsys Inc.

Huawei designs its microprocessors and other chips for products including the Mate series flagship smartphones.

The U.S firms’ software is considered gold standard, used by manufacturers globally to perfect chip blueprints and test them before committing them to physical silicon, where a single mistake can set back a chip for months.

“It’s hard to replace,” said Mike Demler, a senior analyst with The Linley Group. “Cadence and Synopsys pretty much have all the ground covered for anything you would need,” he said.

“I’m sure there’s some equivalent that tries to fill the same roles from Chinese companies, but the Chinese just do not have a presence we’re aware of outside of the country.”

Cadence and Synopsys did not respond to requests for comment. Huawei said it cannot comment.

SPECIALISED CHIPS, LASERS

Huawei also has exposure to U.S. suppliers of speciality lasers and modules such as NeoPhotonics, Lumentum and Finisar.

The lasers, which are used to send information in the form of light signals through fibre-optic cables, are critical to Huawei’s world-leading telecom network equipment business.

Firms like Finisar, which is being bought by II-VI Inc, and Lumentum have put decades of work into being able to make large quantities of lasers, said Philip Gadd, a retired chip executive who once ran Intel’s silicon photonics division.

“Even if the Chinese could do it, I don’t think they could come up to scale,” he said.

Finisar is trying to determine the impact of the Huawei ban, according to a person briefed on the matter.

Finisar and Lumentum did not return requests for comment. NeoPhotonics, which gets most of its revenues from four firms including Huawei, declined to comment.

Huawei has sought to develop its own capabilities in the field, in part by purchasing a former British Telecom research centre in 2012 and startup Caliopa in 2012.

“The Chinese have been on an acquisition path,” said one silicon photonics executive. “They’ve been buying up bits and pieces wherever they could. A lot of the (U.S. government) restrictions have come too late.”

But Huawei relies on so-called chip “foundries”, especially Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd (TSMC), for the complex task of physically producing the chips that it designs. That is a common practice in the chip industry.

By contrast, many silicon photonics firms such as Finisar, still make their own chips.

MARCH TO SELF-SUFFICIENCY

Huawei has been under pressure since early in the decade over U.S. allegations its gear could be a conduit for Chinese spying, a concern the company says is unfounded.

The United States has ratcheted up the rhetoric in the past year, calling on allies to bar the firm from next-generation 5G mobile networks while locking horns with China in a trade war.

Against this backdrop, Huawei has been a key part of China’s campaign to develop its own capabilities in chips and reduce reliance on imports from companies such as Qualcomm, Intel and Samsung Electronics .

Huawei’s chip division produced more than $7.5 billion worth of chips last year, its rotating chairman Eric Xu had told Reuters. That compares with an estimated $21 billon (16.46 billion pounds) worth of chips that Huawei acquired from outside vendors.

A Huawei spokesman said the company will use HiSilicon products to substitute banned American components where possible, but declined to provide more details.

HiSilicon’s He has described the self-sufficiency efforts as a “long march in the history of technology” that would pay off with the United State’s “crazy decision”. “All the spare tires we have been making, now is the time to use them!”
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Wow, I guess these other Huawei thread is closed.

Anyway, the following is a article about how experts don't believe in Huawei can escape with the ban. I have to say I tend to believe these experts. I wrote a couple of posts on the general description of telecommunication systems. I will put the link here:

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...-by-banning-huawei.t8382/page-106#post-554175
and
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...-by-banning-huawei.t8382/page-106#post-554177

Now the following is the article about the experts doubts that Huawei can largely escape this ban (if the ban is fully carried out).
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


SAN FRANCISCO/HONG KONG (Reuters) - Chip experts are calling out Huawei for its claims that it could ensure a steady supply chain without U.S. help, saying the technology the Chinese telecoms network gear maker buys from American companies would be “hard to replace”.

The Trump administration officially added Huawei to a trade blacklist on Thursday, enacting restrictions that will make it difficult for the tech giant to do business with American firms, in its latest broadside against the company that U.S. officials have labelled a threat to national security.

The head of Huawei’s HiSilicon chip division on Friday shrugged off concerns about disruptions to supply, saying it has long been preparing for this kind of “extreme scenario”.

Huawei will aim to be technologically “self-reliant” going forward, He Tingbo said in a letter to staff.

But that is easier said than done, industry experts say.

“I would be surprised if HiSilicon can make it without any U.S. suppliers,” said Linda Sui, a Strategy Analytics analyst.

A China-based source at a U.S. tech company previously told Reuters that none of Huawei’s U.S. suppliers “can be replaced by Chinese ones, not within a few years, at least”.

As an example of Huawei’s reliance on U.S. firms, an expert pointed to the high probability that the tech giant uses chip design software from market leaders Cadence Design Systems Inc and Synopsys Inc.

Huawei designs its microprocessors and other chips for products including the Mate series flagship smartphones.

The U.S firms’ software is considered gold standard, used by manufacturers globally to perfect chip blueprints and test them before committing them to physical silicon, where a single mistake can set back a chip for months.

“It’s hard to replace,” said Mike Demler, a senior analyst with The Linley Group. “Cadence and Synopsys pretty much have all the ground covered for anything you would need,” he said.

“I’m sure there’s some equivalent that tries to fill the same roles from Chinese companies, but the Chinese just do not have a presence we’re aware of outside of the country.”

Cadence and Synopsys did not respond to requests for comment. Huawei said it cannot comment.

SPECIALISED CHIPS, LASERS

Huawei also has exposure to U.S. suppliers of speciality lasers and modules such as NeoPhotonics, Lumentum and Finisar.

The lasers, which are used to send information in the form of light signals through fibre-optic cables, are critical to Huawei’s world-leading telecom network equipment business.

Firms like Finisar, which is being bought by II-VI Inc, and Lumentum have put decades of work into being able to make large quantities of lasers, said Philip Gadd, a retired chip executive who once ran Intel’s silicon photonics division.

“Even if the Chinese could do it, I don’t think they could come up to scale,” he said.

Finisar is trying to determine the impact of the Huawei ban, according to a person briefed on the matter.

Finisar and Lumentum did not return requests for comment. NeoPhotonics, which gets most of its revenues from four firms including Huawei, declined to comment.

Huawei has sought to develop its own capabilities in the field, in part by purchasing a former British Telecom research centre in 2012 and startup Caliopa in 2012.

“The Chinese have been on an acquisition path,” said one silicon photonics executive. “They’ve been buying up bits and pieces wherever they could. A lot of the (U.S. government) restrictions have come too late.”

But Huawei relies on so-called chip “foundries”, especially Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd (TSMC), for the complex task of physically producing the chips that it designs. That is a common practice in the chip industry.

By contrast, many silicon photonics firms such as Finisar, still make their own chips.

MARCH TO SELF-SUFFICIENCY

Huawei has been under pressure since early in the decade over U.S. allegations its gear could be a conduit for Chinese spying, a concern the company says is unfounded.

The United States has ratcheted up the rhetoric in the past year, calling on allies to bar the firm from next-generation 5G mobile networks while locking horns with China in a trade war.

Against this backdrop, Huawei has been a key part of China’s campaign to develop its own capabilities in chips and reduce reliance on imports from companies such as Qualcomm, Intel and Samsung Electronics .

Huawei’s chip division produced more than $7.5 billion worth of chips last year, its rotating chairman Eric Xu had told Reuters. That compares with an estimated $21 billon (16.46 billion pounds) worth of chips that Huawei acquired from outside vendors.

A Huawei spokesman said the company will use HiSilicon products to substitute banned American components where possible, but declined to provide more details.

HiSilicon’s He has described the self-sufficiency efforts as a “long march in the history of technology” that would pay off with the United State’s “crazy decision”. “All the spare tires we have been making, now is the time to use them!”

US design software like cadence and Synopsys can use pirated version, I got them for like $70. Just use pirated version for design.
 

Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
Wow, I guess these other Huawei thread is closed.

Anyway, the following is a article about how experts don't believe in Huawei can escape with the ban. I have to say I tend to believe these experts. I wrote a couple of posts on the general description of telecommunication systems. I will put the link here:

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...-by-banning-huawei.t8382/page-106#post-554175
and
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/is...-by-banning-huawei.t8382/page-106#post-554177

Now the following is the article about the experts doubts that Huawei can largely escape this ban (if the ban is fully carried out).
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


SAN FRANCISCO/HONG KONG (Reuters) - Chip experts are calling out Huawei for its claims that it could ensure a steady supply chain without U.S. help, saying the technology the Chinese telecoms network gear maker buys from American companies would be “hard to replace”.

The Trump administration officially added Huawei to a trade blacklist on Thursday, enacting restrictions that will make it difficult for the tech giant to do business with American firms, in its latest broadside against the company that U.S. officials have labelled a threat to national security.

The head of Huawei’s HiSilicon chip division on Friday shrugged off concerns about disruptions to supply, saying it has long been preparing for this kind of “extreme scenario”.

Huawei will aim to be technologically “self-reliant” going forward, He Tingbo said in a letter to staff.

But that is easier said than done, industry experts say.

“I would be surprised if HiSilicon can make it without any U.S. suppliers,” said Linda Sui, a Strategy Analytics analyst.

A China-based source at a U.S. tech company previously told Reuters that none of Huawei’s U.S. suppliers “can be replaced by Chinese ones, not within a few years, at least”.

As an example of Huawei’s reliance on U.S. firms, an expert pointed to the high probability that the tech giant uses chip design software from market leaders Cadence Design Systems Inc and Synopsys Inc.

Huawei designs its microprocessors and other chips for products including the Mate series flagship smartphones.

The U.S firms’ software is considered gold standard, used by manufacturers globally to perfect chip blueprints and test them before committing them to physical silicon, where a single mistake can set back a chip for months.

“It’s hard to replace,” said Mike Demler, a senior analyst with The Linley Group. “Cadence and Synopsys pretty much have all the ground covered for anything you would need,” he said.

“I’m sure there’s some equivalent that tries to fill the same roles from Chinese companies, but the Chinese just do not have a presence we’re aware of outside of the country.”

Cadence and Synopsys did not respond to requests for comment. Huawei said it cannot comment.

SPECIALISED CHIPS, LASERS

Huawei also has exposure to U.S. suppliers of speciality lasers and modules such as NeoPhotonics, Lumentum and Finisar.

The lasers, which are used to send information in the form of light signals through fibre-optic cables, are critical to Huawei’s world-leading telecom network equipment business.

Firms like Finisar, which is being bought by II-VI Inc, and Lumentum have put decades of work into being able to make large quantities of lasers, said Philip Gadd, a retired chip executive who once ran Intel’s silicon photonics division.

“Even if the Chinese could do it, I don’t think they could come up to scale,” he said.

Finisar is trying to determine the impact of the Huawei ban, according to a person briefed on the matter.

Finisar and Lumentum did not return requests for comment. NeoPhotonics, which gets most of its revenues from four firms including Huawei, declined to comment.

Huawei has sought to develop its own capabilities in the field, in part by purchasing a former British Telecom research centre in 2012 and startup Caliopa in 2012.

“The Chinese have been on an acquisition path,” said one silicon photonics executive. “They’ve been buying up bits and pieces wherever they could. A lot of the (U.S. government) restrictions have come too late.”

But Huawei relies on so-called chip “foundries”, especially Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co Ltd (TSMC), for the complex task of physically producing the chips that it designs. That is a common practice in the chip industry.

By contrast, many silicon photonics firms such as Finisar, still make their own chips.

MARCH TO SELF-SUFFICIENCY

Huawei has been under pressure since early in the decade over U.S. allegations its gear could be a conduit for Chinese spying, a concern the company says is unfounded.

The United States has ratcheted up the rhetoric in the past year, calling on allies to bar the firm from next-generation 5G mobile networks while locking horns with China in a trade war.

Against this backdrop, Huawei has been a key part of China’s campaign to develop its own capabilities in chips and reduce reliance on imports from companies such as Qualcomm, Intel and Samsung Electronics .

Huawei’s chip division produced more than $7.5 billion worth of chips last year, its rotating chairman Eric Xu had told Reuters. That compares with an estimated $21 billon (16.46 billion pounds) worth of chips that Huawei acquired from outside vendors.

A Huawei spokesman said the company will use HiSilicon products to substitute banned American components where possible, but declined to provide more details.

HiSilicon’s He has described the self-sufficiency efforts as a “long march in the history of technology” that would pay off with the United State’s “crazy decision”. “All the spare tires we have been making, now is the time to use them!”

If you compare the above article with the 2 posts I wrote (links in the above), the experts largely agreed with me. That is Huawei is going to have problems with Optical components and software.

Regards to software, when I uses those softwares, right after I open those software, it would go to the software company's central office to get permission. I don't know how hard it is to fake it if you want to pirate the software.

Interestingly, there is no mention of FPGA. I truly doubt China can supply those FPGAs. So maybe there is a non-USA and non-China FPGA vendors out there.

By the way, even if Huawei can find substitute vendors, there will be problems with inventory. Company only build parts when there is a need and it will take time to build additional parts.
 

Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
US design software like cadence and Synopsys can use pirated version, I got them for like $70. Just use pirated version for design.

Are those full functional? In addition, those software have updated characteristics for every chips in the whole world. They are updated every day. I wonder how does pirate software deal with it?
 

Faithlock

New Member
Registered Member
That's the problem , Huawei only wants to be a telecom company when it should look up to Samsung to do it all. Everything technology related.
Samsung Memory, foundry service, cellphone, 5G ,battery, display, optics, precision electromechanical parts, refrigerator, washing machine, printer,..etc. If Samsung in Huawei position, it will be harder to sanction samsung.

Basically, Huawei needs to look beyond this and take charge of China Semiconductor development effort, it should jump into optics (Carl Zeiss) and lithography equipment (ASML).

Now, that's true ambition! Remaining a telecom fabless company is not enough.
It also need to get into process and chip manufacturing.

What Huawei (and every other Chinese companies) really need is having a strong government who can fight back and stop the trade war.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Does China have the ball to play offense by banning Intel, Micron, US Semiconductor firms in China??this way it will wretch US tech industry.

Walking out of deal is passive defense.
You've mentioned balls or other people's genitalia at least 4 times in the last 3 posts; don't make it so obvious when overcompensating LOL

There are plenty of things people can do but they don't and it has nothing to do with "balls." Does the US have the "balls" to attack Iran or Venezuela? Does Russia have the "balls" to take the rest of Ukraine? Do you have the "balls" to start a career in professional boxing? How about Thai crocodile-taming?

These are not the right questions to ask. The right question to ask is whether the calculus in Beijing puts these reactions as the most beneficial and effective. You've given your opinion and your suggestion based on public knowledge; now Zhongnanhai will make their decision based on privileged intel.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Are those full functional? In addition, those software have updated characteristics for every chips in the whole world. They are updated every day. I wonder how does pirate software deal with it?
No updates.
Basically all those software have scripting capility and if you want customized enhanced functionality

Then have your team to script it on the pirated version to get the enhanced features.

Those software all built using modular approach.

I have known small companies design latest chip at the time with outdated software using that approach.
 
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Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
What are the chances of ZTE, Lenovo and other tech companies pooling their resources to target and replicate/replace specific critical component suppliers of US ?
Like- Lenovo would be entrusted to work with memory chips, while a new ZTE subsidiary shoul deal with optoelectronics. I think it'd take around 5 years. Btw, help can be bought from other countries too .
 
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